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Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages

References (2 earlier) <516C3C44.6010706@rece.vub.ac.be> <mailman.647.1366060446.3114.python-list@python.org> <kkhtqc$15t$1@dont-email.me> <CAPTjJmpqXYZ=p6xo9+KOBbG56qRSPtdyWaKOHM3AV4GhrLiXPA@mail.gmail.com> <CAMjeLr9fjsrZqwb=x22Ft74nxFVM8D+vgyjH2BrWB_wkV3V1gQ@mail.gmail.com>
From Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com>
Date 2013-04-16 17:14 -0600
Subject Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.696.1366154184.3114.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think his point remains valid, from a theoretical pov.  Python
> prides itself on the idea of "first-class functions" and such, but
> unlike the world of lambda calculus, this selling point is a bit
> invalid.  Because for Python (and any C-based language), it is roots
> squarely in the Turing machine and its real-word implementation.

I'm having a hard time following what you're trying to say here.
Lambda calculus and Turing machines are theoretical models of
computation, not languages.  You can model Lisp programs with Turing
machine, and you can model C programs with lambda expressions.
Practically speaking you would probably have an easier time doing it
the other way around, due to the procedural nature of the Turing
machine versus the functional nature of the lambda calculus.

By the usual definition of "first-class function" [1], Python
functions are first-class; this has nothing to do with functional vs.
procedural programming (although it is more commonly found in the
former) or to do with Turing machines (which don't even include
functions as a concept).

>   (Note this contrasts starkly with Java(script), which doesn't seem
> to be based on anything -- can anyone clarify where Java actually
> comes from?)

I don't understand why you would consider Python to be "C-based" or
"Turing machine-based" but not Java or Javascript.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-class_citizen

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The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-14 20:48 -0700
  Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-15 10:11 +0000
    Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-04-15 19:43 +0200
      Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-16 02:15 +0000
    Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-04-15 17:13 -0400
      Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2013-04-15 23:12 +0100
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-16 08:32 +1000
          Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2013-04-15 23:54 +0100
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-16 15:38 -0700
          Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-17 06:40 +0000
            Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-17 16:56 +1000
            Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2013-04-17 00:16 -0700
            Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-04-17 18:40 -0400
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-16 17:14 -0600
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-04-18 10:37 -0600
          Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-04-18 17:57 +0000
          Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-19 01:00 +0000
            Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-18 21:08 -0400
              Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-18 18:24 -0700
              Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-04-18 22:10 -0400
              Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-18 19:30 -0700
                Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-19 03:38 +0000
              Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-04-18 22:39 -0400
              Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 13:32 -0700
                Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 18:13 -0700
    Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-04-15 20:52 -0400
      Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-16 02:32 +0000
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-04-15 23:17 -0400
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-15 22:46 -0600
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-15 21:56 -0700
          Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-16 05:59 +0000
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2013-04-16 11:25 +0300
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-04-16 11:07 +0200
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-04-16 12:49 -0400
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-04-16 10:29 -0700
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-04-16 14:29 -0400
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-16 12:22 -0600
        Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-04-17 14:04 +0200
  Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2013-04-15 23:54 -0700
  Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2013-04-15 23:54 -0700
  Re: The type/object distinction and possible synthesis of OOP and imperative programming languages rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-21 08:44 -0700

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