Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #66244

Re: singleton ... again

Show key headers only | View raw

On 2014-02-13 20:03, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 2:24 AM, Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> wrote:
>> In article <mailman.6834.1392292646.18130.python-list@python.org>,
>>   Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I still don't see it.  To convince me that a singleton class makes sense,
>>>> you'd have to explain why by virtue of the class's very nature, it never
>>>> makes sense for there ever to be more than one of them.
>>>
>>> There's a huge difference, btw, between mutable and immutable
>>> singletons. With immutables like None, True/False, integers, strings,
>>> and tuples thereof, returning a preexisting object is just an
>>> optimization. Do it if you want, don't if you don't, nobody's going to
>>> hugely care.
>>
>> People *depend* on None being a singleton (and are encouraged to do so),
>> when they use "is" as the test-for-Noneness.
>
> Circular argument, though. If None weren't a singleton, people would
> use == to test for Noneness. Since it's been guaranteed to be
> optimized to a singleton, the comparison can also be optimized, but
> it's still just an optimization, as can be seen with integers. In
> CPython, you could test for small integer equality using 'is', but
> since that optimization isn't guaranteed, neither is that code
> pattern.

We don't use `is None` instead of `== None` for the speed. We use it for 
robustness. We don't want arbitrary __eq__()s to interfere with our sentinel 
tests. If None weren't a singleton that we could use as such a sentinel, we'd 
make one.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

singleton ... again Asaf Las <roegltd@gmail.com> - 2014-02-11 20:34 -0800
  Re: singleton ... again Asaf Las <roegltd@gmail.com> - 2014-02-11 21:15 -0800
  Re:singleton ... again Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2014-02-12 00:48 -0500
    Re: singleton ... again Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-02-12 00:55 -0500
      Re: singleton ... again Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-02-12 23:04 +1300
        Re: singleton ... again Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-02-12 21:09 +1100
          Re: singleton ... again Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-02-12 08:40 -0500
          Re: singleton ... again Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2014-02-13 10:00 +0100
            Re: singleton ... again Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-02-13 06:50 -0500
            Re: singleton ... again Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-02-13 22:57 +1100
              Re: singleton ... again Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-02-13 10:24 -0500
                Re: singleton ... again Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-02-14 07:03 +1100
                Re: singleton ... again Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2014-02-13 21:13 +0000
                Re: singleton ... again Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-02-14 08:27 +1100
            Re: singleton ... again Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-02-13 08:57 -0800
              Re: singleton ... again Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-02-13 12:57 -0500
                Re: singleton ... again Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-02-13 10:31 -0800
                Re: singleton ... again Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-02-13 14:03 -0500
                Re: singleton ... again Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-02-14 06:50 +1100
                Re: singleton ... again Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-02-13 22:28 +0000
              Re: singleton ... again Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-02-14 18:21 +1300
            Re: singleton ... again Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-02-14 06:16 +1100
        Re: singleton ... again Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-02-13 02:58 +0000
          Re: singleton ... again Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-02-13 14:07 +1100
            Re: singleton ... again Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-02-13 04:24 +0000
              Re: singleton ... again Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-02-13 15:33 +1100
              Re: singleton ... again Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-02-14 18:15 +1300
          Re: singleton ... again Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-02-14 18:06 +1300
    Re: singleton ... again Asaf Las <roegltd@gmail.com> - 2014-02-12 09:50 -0800
      Re: singleton ... again Asaf Las <roegltd@gmail.com> - 2014-02-12 09:56 -0800
        Re: singleton ... again Asaf Las <roegltd@gmail.com> - 2014-02-12 09:58 -0800
        Re: singleton ... again Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-02-13 10:57 +1300
          Re: singleton ... again Asaf Las <roegltd@gmail.com> - 2014-02-12 17:38 -0800
      Re: singleton ... again Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-12 18:57 +0000
        Re: singleton ... again Asaf Las <roegltd@gmail.com> - 2014-02-12 17:02 -0800
      Re: singleton ... again Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-02-12 16:34 -0500
        Re: singleton ... again Asaf Las <roegltd@gmail.com> - 2014-02-12 17:34 -0800
      Re: singleton ... again Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-02-13 10:08 +1100
      Re: singleton ... again Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-02-12 20:57 -0500
  Re: singleton ... again Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-02-12 15:05 -0700

csiph-web