Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL!

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Date	2011-07-05 02:01 +1000
Subject	Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL!
From	Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.597.1309795318.1164.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 1:46 AM, rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 4, 10:40 am, Chris Angelico <ros...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Uhh, sorry. No. There are plenty of good reasons for one application
>> to make multiple top-level windows, and if I ever find myself using a
>> toolkit that makes this difficult, I'll either be hacking the toolkit
>> or using a different one. I've been building GUI applications for far
>> too long to not want features like that.
>
> And those reasons are...?

As varied as the applications that call on them. One example that
springs to mind: Our database front end has "table view" and "record
view", where you get one table view and from that you can view as many
records as you like. Users may choose to effectively switch from one
view to the other, or they may open up two or more record views and
have them and the table view all on screen simultaneously. This is not
a modal dialog; it's not even a modeless dialog - it's a completely
stand-alone window that can be moved around the Z order independently
of the parent. There's a definite ownership based on process, though;
terminate the process (by closing the table view) and it must close
all record views first. I've done other applications where this has
not been the case - where all top-level windows are truly equal - but
not in this instance.

As an aside, that particular program is one that we are currently
using (I glance over and can see it running on one of our terminals
here), and the interface has not changed since about 2002 (actually
earlier - 2002 had a major code rewrite without much UI change).
Multiple top-level windows fulfills the Law of Least Astonishment
admirably, and has done so for a decade.

Chris Angelico

Thread

Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 15:11 -0700
  Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 08:21 +1000
    Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-07-03 18:32 -0400
  Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-04 20:33 +1200
    Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 18:44 +1000
      Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 08:29 -0700
    Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 08:19 -0700
      Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 01:40 +1000
        Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 08:46 -0700
          Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 02:01 +1000
            Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 10:09 -0700
              Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 03:41 +1000
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 12:30 -0700
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 07:43 +1000
      Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 08:45 -0700
      Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-05 23:11 +1200
      Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-05 23:14 +1200
        Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-06 00:25 +1000
          Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 01:17 +1000
            Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 15:38 -0700
          Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Web Dreamer <webdreamer@nospam.fr> - 2011-07-05 18:00 +0200
            Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 15:42 -0700
              Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 09:20 +1000
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 16:47 -0700
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 09:54 +1000
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 17:15 -0700
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 10:34 +1000
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 18:10 -0700
              Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-06 18:12 +1200
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 06:51 -0700
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-07 00:32 +1000
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 08:10 -0700
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-07 02:11 +1000
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 11:28 -0500
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-07 03:41 +1000
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 11:19 -0700
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 13:36 -0500
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 13:15 -0600
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2011-07-06 20:34 +0100
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 14:55 +1000
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 02:24 +1000
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! "Waldek M." <wm@localhost.localdomain> - 2011-07-06 18:56 +0200
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-07-06 12:37 -0500
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 03:46 +1000
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-07 17:34 +1200
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 10:29 -0700
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 04:24 +1000
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-08 11:25 +1000
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 10:30 -0700
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-09 14:41 +1000
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-08 13:58 +1200
                Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 13:42 -0500
        Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 15:47 -0700
          Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-06 18:29 +1200
  Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Robin Becker <robin@reportlab.com> - 2011-07-04 16:35 +0100
    Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! nn <pruebauno@latinmail.com> - 2011-07-05 08:33 -0700
      Re: Implicit initialization is EVIL! Robin Becker <robin@reportlab.com> - 2011-07-05 17:23 +0100

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