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Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic

From Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Subject Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic
Date 2016-07-17 17:33 +1000
Message-ID <mailman.57.1468740786.2307.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
References (21 earlier) <9eda5007-a48f-4bac-8d09-c8af9e6b9987@googlegroups.com> <CAPTjJmqtwRd8wZ1qMHi_r8h2wRnXtRP9wkidP_fS3F+7Tpuj0w@mail.gmail.com> <mailman.55.1468728344.2307.python-list@python.org> <4854a8df-0d64-4abe-8289-ddad178d315f@googlegroups.com> <CAPTjJmpJYechVae47VrM0NmUBy_6V8mzTHTW=xxSwkRHNfJbDQ@mail.gmail.com>

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On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am sure Chris you can distinguish between:
>
> - Python’s (bool) model is bizarre
> - The model “Everything has auto-bool-nature” is bizarre
> - The notion « “Everything has auto-bool-nature” is straightforward » is bizarre
>
>
> My earlier statement (with emphasis in original):
>> You also have a bizarre notion that python's property: “Everything has
>> auto-bool-nature” IS STRAIGHTFORWARD.

I can distinguish them, yes. But Python's boolification model is
fundamentally the same as the model "Everything has auto-bool-nature".
So those two aren't really all that different, save that one of them
is language-agnostic.

I understand your third statement, but I posit that these last points
have proven it false. There are clearly a number of viable semantic
systems:

1) REXX and, I think, Pascal: there are two specific values that may
be used in conditionals, and anything else is an error
2) Everything is legal in a conditional, and has a truth value
2a) Pike: 0 is false, every other object is true, unless it defines a
magic method
2b) Python: Empty values and collections are false, everything else is
true, unless it defines a magic method
2c) JavaScript: 0, null, undefined, nan, "", false are false,
everything else is true, including all objects (no magic method
option)
3) Machine code: There are no conditionals - just CPU flags that you
can jump or not jump on.

All of them work. So you could *disagree* with the statement that
Python's model is straight-forward, but you cannot say that this
statement is *bizarre*.

ChrisA

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Thread

Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Elizabeth Weiss <cake240@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 20:40 -0700
  Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-06-22 13:59 +1000
    Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Elizabeth Weiss <cake240@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 21:19 -0700
    Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Elizabeth Weiss <cake240@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 21:20 -0700
  Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-22 16:02 +1000
  Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-06-22 08:26 +0200
    Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-06-22 10:14 +0300
      Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Elizabeth Weiss <cake240@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 21:21 -0700
  Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 00:42 -0700
    Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-22 20:12 -0700
      Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-23 13:59 +1000
        Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Elizabeth Weiss <cake240@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 21:23 -0700
        Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-23 09:58 +0200
          Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-23 11:16 +0300
            Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-23 01:53 -0700
              Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-23 12:10 +0300
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-23 11:27 +0200
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-23 12:53 +0300
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-23 12:54 +0200
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-23 13:59 +0300
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-23 13:15 +0200
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-06-23 15:05 +0300
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-23 22:13 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-23 02:44 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-23 12:57 +0300
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-24 22:38 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-06-25 09:46 +0300
            Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-23 11:01 +0200
          Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-23 19:39 +1000
            Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-23 12:21 +0200
              Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-23 22:37 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-23 15:24 +0200
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-23 09:26 -0400
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-24 02:43 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-24 01:49 +1000
        Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-25 11:56 +0300
      Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 21:47 -0700
        Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 22:00 -0700
        Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@online.de> - 2016-06-23 08:34 +0200
          Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-23 09:46 +0300
          Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-23 17:05 +1000
            Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-23 10:17 +0200
              Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-23 18:48 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-23 11:23 +0200
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-23 21:45 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-23 14:08 +0200
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@online.de> - 2016-06-23 14:22 +0200
            Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@online.de> - 2016-06-23 10:23 +0200
            Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@online.de> - 2016-06-23 10:32 +0200
              Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-23 19:17 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-23 12:46 +0300
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@online.de> - 2016-06-23 12:19 +0200
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-26 11:01 +1200
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 03:21 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 21:06 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-29 23:08 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 06:30 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-30 09:40 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 09:01 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-01 03:22 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 22:48 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 22:58 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-16 19:14 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-16 20:16 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 20:46 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-16 21:02 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 00:26 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 05:33 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-17 02:27 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-07-16 17:58 +0100
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 20:43 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 14:05 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 23:44 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 23:59 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 17:33 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 00:44 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-17 20:04 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-17 21:02 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 08:00 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-18 01:58 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-18 02:01 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 03:06 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 05:15 -0700
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-17 02:36 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 15:00 +0000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2016-06-29 15:05 +0000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-30 09:44 +1000
                Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@online.de> - 2016-06-23 11:51 +0200
        Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-23 17:20 +1000
        Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-23 09:18 -0400
      Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-06-23 09:11 +0200
    Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Elizabeth Weiss <cake240@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 21:22 -0700
  Fwd: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Jorge Gimeno <jlgimeno71@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 20:56 -0700
  Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-22 10:10 -0400
  Re: Operator Precedence/Boolean Logic Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com> - 2016-06-22 20:43 +0100

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