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Re: Beazley 4E P.E.R, Page29: Unicode

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On 14 July 2013 04:09,  <vek.m1234@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17632246/beazley-4e-p-e-r-page29-unicode
>
> "directly writing a raw UTF-8 encoded string such as 'Jalape\xc3\xb1o' simply produces a nine-character string U+004A, U+0061, U+006C, U+0061, U+0070, U+0065, U+00C3, U+00B1, U+006F, which is probably not what you intended.This is because in UTF-8, the multi- byte sequence \xc3\xb1 is supposed to represent the single character U+00F1, not the two characters U+00C3 and U+00B1."

Correct.

> My original question was: Shouldn't this be 8 characters - not 9?

No, Python tends to be right on these things.

> He says: \xc3\xb1 is supposed to represent the single character. However after some interaction with fellow Pythonistas i'm even more confused.

You would be, given the way he said it.

> With reference to the above para:
> 1. What does he mean by "writing a raw UTF-8 encoded string"??

Well, that doesn't really mean much with no context like he gave it.

> In Python2, once can do 'Jalape funny-n o'. This is a 'bytes' string where each glyph is 1 byte long when stored internally so each glyph is associated with an integer as per charset ASCII or Latin-1. If these charsets have a funny-n glyph then yay! else nay! There is no UTF-8 here!! or UTF-16!! These are plain bytes (8 bits).
>
> Unicode is a really big mapping table between glyphs and integers and are denoted as Uxxxx or Uxxxx-xxxx.

*Waits for our resident unicode experts to explain why you're actually wrong*

> UTF-8 UTF-16 are encodings to store those big integers in an efficient manner. So when DB says "writing a raw UTF-8 encoded string" - well the only way to do this is to use Python3 where the default string literals are stored in Unicode which then will use a UTF-8 UTF-16 internally to store the bytes in their respective structures; or, one could use u'Jalape' which is unicode in both languages (note the leading 'u').

Correct.

> 2. So assuming this is Python 3: 'Jalape \xYY \xZZ o' (spaces for readability) what DB is saying is that, the stupid-user would expect Jalapeno with a squiggly-n but instead he gets is: Jalape funny1 funny2 o (spaces for readability) -9 glyphs or 9 Unicode-points or 9-UTF8 characters. Correct?

I think so.

> 3. Which leaves me wondering what he means by:
> "This is because in UTF-8, the multi- byte sequence \xc3\xb1 is supposed to represent the single character U+00F1, not the two characters U+00C3 and U+00B1"

He's mixed some things up, AFAICT.

> Could someone take the time to read carefully and clarify what DB is saying??

Here's a simple explanation: you're both wrong (or you're both *almost* right):

As of Python 3:

>>> "\xc3\xb1"
'ñ'
>>> b"\xc3\xb1".decode()
'ñ'

"WHAT?!" you scream, "THAT'S WRONG!" But it's not. Let me explain.

Python 3's strings want you to give each character separately (*winces
in case I'm wrong*). Python is interpreting the "\xc3" as "\N{LATIN
CAPITAL LETTER A WITH TILDE}" and "\xb1" as "\N{PLUS-MINUS SIGN}"¹.
This means that Python is given *two* characters. Python is basically
doing this:

number = int("c3", 16) # Convert from base16
chr(number) # Turn to the character from the Unicode mapping

When you give Python *raw bytes*, you are saying that this is what the
string looks like *when encoded* -- you are not giving Python Unicode,
but *encoded Unicode*. This means that when you decode it (.decode())
it is free to convert multibyte sections to their relevant characters.

To see how an *encoded string* is not the same as the string itself, see:

>>> "Jalepeño".encode("ASCII", errors="xmlcharrefreplace")
b'Jalepe&#241;o'

Those *represent* the same thing, but the first (according to Python)
*is* the thing, the second needs to be *decoded*.

Now, bringing this back to the original:

>>> "\xc3\xb1".encode()
b'\xc3\x83\xc2\xb1'

You can see that the *encoded* bytes represent the *two* characters;
the string you see above is *not the encoded one*. The encoding is
*internal to Python*.


I hope that helps; good luck.


¹ Note that I find the "\N{...}" form much easier to read, and recommend it.

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Thread

Beazley 4E P.E.R, Page29: Unicode vek.m1234@gmail.com - 2013-07-13 20:09 -0700
  Re: Beazley 4E P.E.R, Page29: Unicode Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-07-14 03:08 -0400
  Re: Beazley 4E P.E.R, Page29: Unicode Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2013-07-14 08:13 +0100
    Re: Beazley 4E P.E.R, Page29: Unicode vek.m1234@gmail.com - 2013-07-14 01:10 -0700
  Re: Beazley 4E P.E.R, Page29: Unicode Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-14 08:18 +0000
    Re: Beazley 4E P.E.R, Page29: Unicode vek.m1234@gmail.com - 2013-07-14 02:39 -0700

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