Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #87590

Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain

References (6 earlier) <8761a1gxhq.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <CAEfz+TxKBdUrhxUT43Bq5Td=G9Nbu1ANHjF2Ou1tPfih8PNh6w@mail.gmail.com> <550710DD.3030405@gmail.com> <CAPTjJmo41WT1ZbOYjAc8BBhJuY4dtM-Hq_2cFcKZjJSn_5PmVQ@mail.gmail.com> <55078762.6050809@gmail.com>
Date 2015-03-17 12:57 +1100
Subject Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain
From Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.467.1426557440.21433.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

Show all headers | View raw

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> wrote:
> But after 20 years, the package manager idea certain has revealed many
> shortcomings (in short, it sucks in many ways).  Package managers work
> great for setting up the core distro, and also if the packages you need
> are in the repos.  Distros like RHEL and Debian tend to have long-term
> stability at the expense of not having recent versions of programs and
> libraries.
>

AIUI, your main beef with the packaging system is, as you rightly
note, an inherent conflict between stability and currency. Very true.
RHEL especially, Debian to a somewhat lesser extent, and every OS that
has a curated package system, will run into that problem.

But the solution isn't necessarily to throw out the packaging system.
All you need is to expand it. I don't know how you do it with yum, but
with apt, you simply add something to /etc/apt/sources.list (or the .d
directory), grab your index files, and install. That's how I install
PostgreSQL on Debian Wheezy; the Debian repos ship Postgres 9.1, but
by simply adding the apt.postgresql.org repo, I can grab 9.4 using the
exact same system. Ubuntu's PPA system achieves the same thing, as
mentioned, but even without PPAs, you can still have multiple
repositories.

The hardest part is managing library versions, and that's always going
to be a problem. Sometimes the latest version of an application
demands a newer version of a library than you have, and if you upgrade
that library, you might need to upgrade a whole lot else, too, so you
may as well upgrade everything and call it a new version of the
distro.

The versioning problem is just as much an issue no matter how you try
to cope with it. Package managers can't magically solve everything,
but they can make a lot of jobs easier, so on that basis, I say
they're beneficial. We don't need a 100% solution to be able to make
use of a 90% solution.

ChrisA

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 14:22 +1100
  Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-15 22:07 -0700
    Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 16:39 +1100
      Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-15 23:17 -0700
        Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-16 19:00 +1100
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-16 01:31 -0700
            Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-17 00:05 +1100
              Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 00:29 +1100
            Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-03-16 13:59 -0400
      Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-16 18:56 +1100
        Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-16 01:25 -0700
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain INADA Naoki <songofacandy@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 18:13 +0900
            Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-16 22:55 +1100
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-17 01:25 +1100
            Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-16 15:36 -0700
              Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-03-16 22:28 -0400
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-17 01:31 -0700
              Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-17 22:26 +1100
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-17 07:03 -0700
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 15:35 +0100
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-19 16:23 -0700
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-19 22:03 -0400
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 03:54 +0100
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 11:20 -0600
            Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-17 07:36 +1100
              Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 20:14 -0600
              Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2015-03-17 17:47 +1100
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-03-16 13:47 -0400
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-16 18:14 +0000
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain INADA Naoki <songofacandy@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 04:41 +0900
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 09:02 +1100
            Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 04:04 +0100
              Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 21:33 -0600
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-17 19:36 +1100
              Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-17 14:42 +1100
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 05:30 +0100
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2015-03-18 08:53 +1100
              Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 14:49 +1100
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 05:26 +0100
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-17 04:36 +0000
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-17 14:50 +0000
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-17 08:15 -0700
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-17 18:36 -0400
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-17 22:41 +0000
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-18 08:04 -0400
                Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 02:02 +0100
          [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 19:46 -0600
            Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-17 19:39 +1100
              Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 09:02 -0600
            Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-03-19 16:37 -0600
              Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-20 02:40 -0700
                Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 15:59 +0100
                Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 16:03 +0100
                Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-20 15:42 +0000
                Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 04:13 +1100
                Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-20 12:21 -0700
          Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 12:57 +1100
            Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-16 19:45 -0700
              Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 21:05 -0600
          Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 20:07 -0600
          Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-17 02:21 +0000
          Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-17 13:40 +1100
            Package manager cooperation? (was Weaknesses of distro package managers) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 20:09 -0700
              Re: Package manager cooperation? (was Weaknesses of distro package managers) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 21:32 -0600
              Re: Package manager cooperation? (was Weaknesses of distro package managers) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-17 04:03 +0000
              Re: Package manager cooperation? (was Weaknesses of distro package managers) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 15:18 +1100
                Re: Package manager cooperation? (was Weaknesses of distro package managers) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-17 01:44 -0700
          Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 20:51 -0600
          Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-17 03:01 +0000
          Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 21:05 -0600
            Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 04:07 +0100
          Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-17 03:17 +0000
          Re: [OT] Weaknesses of distro package managers - was Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Alexander <xr.lists@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 16:44 +1300
        Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 19:51 +1100
    Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-03-16 04:53 -0400
      Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-16 02:27 -0700

csiph-web