Re: Encapsulation unpythonic?

From	Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au>
Subject	Re: Encapsulation unpythonic?
Date	2013-09-02 09:32 +1000
References	(2 earlier) <5221567b$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <ecd32f98-6ba8-4b1e-91d3-e0fd6a8034c3@googlegroups.com> <5221d7ab$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <ea5a462e-b3da-44cf-8697-fa07d381d3c5@googlegroups.com> <5222f675$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.464.1378078348.19984.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:

> […] programmers have been using the *principle* of encapsulation since
> before Grace Hopper was an admiral.

[…]
> Encapsulation and information hiding are distinct things -- you can
> have one without the other.

[…]
> One of the most obnoxious and annoying traits of OOP zealots,
> especially academics, is that they act as if programming did not exist
> before Java and C++, or if you're really lucky, Smalltalk. (Somehow
> they nearly always forget about Simula.)

Yes. That's something which has been pointed out to such people, even in
the Java community, for most (all?) of Java's history.

Here's a JavaWorld article from 2001, by a Java programmer, with the
clear title “Encapsulation is not information hiding”:

    Encapsulation refers to the bundling of data with the methods that
    operate on that data. Often that definition is misconstrued to mean
    that the data is somehow hidden.

    <URL:http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-05-2001/jw-0518-encapsulation.html>

(That site unfortunately slices up the article into many pages to
increase advertising hits and reader frustration, my apologies.)

One of the more annoying traits of humanity is that whatever context we
first encounter a term is disproportionately privileged, causing us to
irrationally dismiss better (more useful, more reasonable, more
pedagogically appropriate, more historically correct, etc.) definitions.

This thread is an excellent illustration that the field of programming
is no exception.

-- 
 \       Moriarty: “Forty thousand million billion dollars? That money |
  `\            must be worth a fortune!” —The Goon Show, _The Sale of |
_o__)                                                       Manhattan_ |
Ben Finney

Thread

Encapsulation unpythonic? fsaldan1@gmail.com - 2013-08-17 05:26 -0700
  Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2013-08-17 07:54 -0500
  Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2013-08-17 23:05 +1000
  Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-08-17 16:50 +0100
  Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-08-17 16:17 +0000
    Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2013-08-18 18:15 +0100
      Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-08-19 07:05 +0000
        Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-08-19 18:57 -0400
        Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? random832@fastmail.us - 2013-08-21 12:52 -0400
          Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-08-22 02:06 +0000
        Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-08-21 16:02 -0600
  Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Gary Herron <gary.herron@islandtraining.com> - 2013-08-17 13:16 -0700
  Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-08-17 17:22 -0400
  Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-08-18 01:59 +0100
  Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? chaz2cry@gmail.com - 2013-08-22 19:12 -0700
  Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Fabrice Pombet <fp2161@gmail.com> - 2013-08-30 10:43 -0700
    Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-08-31 02:35 +0000
      Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Fabrice Pombet <fp2161@gmail.com> - 2013-08-30 23:07 -0700
        Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Marco Buttu <marco.buttu@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 08:49 +0200
        Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Gary Herron <gherron@digipen.edu> - 2013-08-31 00:03 -0700
          Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Fabrice Pombet <fp2161@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 00:42 -0700
            Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Fabrice Pombet <fp2161@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 01:00 -0700
        Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-08-31 11:46 +0000
          Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-08-31 08:41 -0400
            Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Fabrice Pombet <fp2161@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 05:49 -0700
          Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Fabrice Pombet <fp2161@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 05:57 -0700
            Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-09-01 08:10 +0000
              Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-09-01 18:21 +1000
                Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Fabrice Pombet <fp2161@gmail.com> - 2013-09-01 03:09 -0700
                Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-09-01 11:42 -0700
                Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-09-01 15:13 -0400
                Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-09-01 13:33 -0700
                Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-09-02 07:54 +1000
                Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-09-01 18:02 -0400
                Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-09-01 17:24 -0700
                Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-09-01 20:59 -0400
                Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-09-02 02:57 +0000
                Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-09-01 21:15 -0700
                Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-09-02 01:57 +0000
              Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-09-02 09:32 +1000
                Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-09-01 20:52 -0400
          Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.demon.co.uk> - 2013-09-03 00:29 +0100
            Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-09-03 22:41 -0400
        Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-08-31 13:31 -0400
        Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-09-01 03:47 +1000
    Re: Encapsulation unpythonic? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2013-09-02 14:43 -0700

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