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| Date | Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:18:00 -0400 |
| From | Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> |
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| Subject | Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) |
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On 04/19/2015 07:38 AM, BartC wrote: .... > Perhaps you don't understand what I'm getting at. > > Suppose there were just two syntaxes: C-like and Python-like (we'll put > aside for a minute the question of what format is used to store Python > source code). > > Why shouldn't A configure his editor to display a Python program in > C-like syntax, and B configure their editor to use Python-like tabbed > syntax? > > A can write code in the preferred syntax, and B can view/modify exactly > the same code in /their/ preferred syntax. What would be the problem? > (The actual stored representation of the program would be in one of > those two styles, or something else entirely; Lisp-like syntax for > example. It doesn't matter because no-one would care. > > (I think much of the problem that most languages are intimately > associated with their specific syntax, so that people can't see past it > to what the code is actually saying. a=b, a:=b, b=>a, (setf a b), > whatever the syntax is, who cares? We just want to do an assignment!) > If you make enough simplifying assumptions, of course it's easy and natural. Assume that a text editor is the only way you'll be viewing the source code. You and your coworkers are willing to each use a prescribed text editor, rather than your previous favorite one that doesn't happen to support the customization you're suggesting here. You're not going to use a version control system, nor diff programs. You're not going to post your code in messages on the internet. You're not going to display error messages showing source code, from a running system. You're not going to use the interactive debugger. You're not going to copy code from one place to another without copying sufficient context to be able to reconstruct the funny syntax. You're going to permit only one such variation, and it's just big enough that it's always obvious which version of the code is being examined (by programs or by humans) [1] You're not going to use eval() [good]. You're not going to examine source code that comes from 3rd party or the standard library. The changes you want are all completely reversible, regardless of interspersed comments, and when reversed, preserve spacing and characters completely in the way that each user expects to see the code. And they are reversible even if you only have a small fragment of the code. I implemented something analogous to such a system 40 years ago. But on that system, nearly all of the restrictions above applied. There was no clipboard, no version control, no internet. Programs had to fit in 64k. Each line stood completely on its own, so context was not a problem. i wrote the text editor, much of the interactive debugger, the listing utility, the pretty printer, the cross reference program, etc. So they were consistent. Further, we had a captive audience -- if they didn't like it, they could buy the competitor's product, which had similar constraints. Would I do things differently now? You bet I would. At least if I could upgrade the memory addressability to a few megs. For the purposes you've described so far, I'd suggest just writing two translators, one a mirror image of the other. Invoke them automatically on load and save in your personal editor And learn to live with both syntaxes, because it will leak. And if it's really not reversible, don't use them when you're editing somebody else's code. And even if it is reversible, don't use them when you edit code you plan to post on the internet. [1] So for example a=b can not mean assignment in one version, and a comparison in the other. Because then you'd need to either discover that it's a line by itself, or within an if expression, or ... But you could arrange two disjoint sets of symbols readily enough. In your version, require either := or ==, and make = just plain illegal. PS. I haven't examined the costs in tool development to support this. Just whether it's practical. You can easily discount any one of these constraints, but taken as a whole, they very much limit what you can do. -- DaveA
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New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Blake McBride <blake1024@gmail.com> - 2015-04-15 21:07 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-15 21:48 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 14:51 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-16 15:49 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-15 23:11 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) William Ray Wing <wrw@mac.com> - 2015-04-16 09:00 -0400
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-16 11:51 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-17 03:10 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2015-04-16 12:49 -0500
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-16 22:04 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-17 11:37 +0200
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 22:14 +0300
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-04-16 07:46 +0000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-16 10:47 +0200
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 19:34 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-16 12:09 +0200
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-16 20:43 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-16 13:07 +0200
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-04-16 13:18 +0000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-16 14:44 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-16 18:46 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-04-16 18:03 +0000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 23:50 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-16 16:09 +0200
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-04-16 18:04 +0000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 23:41 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-16 15:57 +0200
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-16 13:17 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-04-16 14:48 +0200
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Simmo <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 14:37 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Blake McBride <blake1024@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 07:52 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Blake McBride <blake1024@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 08:01 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-04-16 18:08 +0000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) memilanuk <memilanuk@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 11:28 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-04-16 15:05 +0000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) edmondo.giovannozzi@gmail.com - 2015-04-20 03:00 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) memilanuk <memilanuk@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 08:05 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-16 16:05 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) CHIN Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 11:46 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 01:03 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-16 15:21 +0000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-17 03:41 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Ron Adam <ron3200@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 14:54 -0400
EditorConfig for cross-editor consistent code style (was: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-04-17 06:10 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 09:44 -0600
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-17 16:28 +0000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-17 18:05 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 10:13 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-04-17 11:13 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-17 23:28 +0300
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-18 07:10 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2015-04-18 01:18 +0000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 19:22 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-19 12:44 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-19 23:23 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-04-19 07:22 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 07:01 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 20:14 -0600
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-18 09:53 +0300
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-04-18 12:22 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 22:28 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-18 10:00 +0300
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-18 00:13 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-18 10:42 +0300
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 11:15 -0600
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-19 23:41 +0300
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 19:00 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-20 12:54 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 13:05 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-20 08:09 +0300
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-19 12:38 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-04-19 22:59 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-19 22:42 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Ron Adam <ron3200@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 19:28 -0400
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-04-20 09:59 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-20 01:30 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-04-19 09:18 -0400
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-19 23:22 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-19 14:30 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 01:15 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 09:03 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2015-04-19 17:38 +0000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-20 03:53 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2015-04-19 18:25 +0000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 19:08 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 12:24 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 19:43 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 13:03 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 20:28 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 13:44 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 19:18 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-20 20:30 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 04:51 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-25 17:42 +0000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-20 13:05 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-04-24 01:50 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-20 03:38 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) llanitedave <llanitedave@birdandflower.com> - 2015-04-21 08:29 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-21 10:49 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) llanitedave <llanitedave@birdandflower.com> - 2015-04-21 14:35 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-21 20:11 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) llanitedave <llanitedave@birdandflower.com> - 2015-04-21 21:05 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-22 04:37 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-22 13:05 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-04-20 20:38 +1200
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-20 20:15 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2015-04-19 18:07 +0000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 06:03 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 18:46 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-20 12:42 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-04-20 03:46 +1000
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-19 13:36 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-24 22:06 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-04-25 10:27 +0300
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-25 09:52 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-24 08:31 +0100
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-04-24 08:03 -0600
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 10:59 -0700
Re: New to Python - block grouping (spaces) Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@technologyhighland.invalid> - 2015-04-16 18:45 +0000
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