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Re: Python handles globals badly.

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On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 2:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:35 am, Ian Kelly wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 4:25 PM,  <tdev@freenet.de> wrote:
> [...]
>>> So the compiler knows the distiction between global and local already.
>>
>> As we've said before, it doesn't. The compiler's current rules are
>> fairly simple:
>>
>> 1) If it's in the function's argument list, it's an argument (and
>> therefore local).
>> 2) If it's explicitly declared global, then it's global.
>> 3) If it's never assigned within the function, then it's global.
>
> Almost. If it's never assigned within the function, then it is looked up
> according to the non-local scoping rules:
>
> - closures and enclosing functions (if any);
> - globals;
> - builtins;
>
> in that order.

I excluded non-locals intentionally, but if you want to be pedantic
about it, then that's still not quite right. Non-locals are indeed
identified by the compiler and compiled with the
LOAD_DEREF/STORE_DEREF opcodes (rather than the _GLOBAL and _FAST
variants used by globals and locals, respectively). The compiler
doesn't make any such distinction between globals and builtins
however, as that can only be determined at run-time.

> There's also a bunch of specialised and complicated rules for what happens
> if you make a star import ("from module import *") inside a function, or
> call eval or exec without specifying a namespace. Both of these things are
> now illegal in Python 3.

Huh?

>>> exec("x = 42")
>>> x
42
>>> exec("x = 43", None, None)
>>> x
43

That's in Python 3.4.0. Maybe I don't understand what you mean by
"without specifying a namespace".

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Re: Python handles globals badly. tdev@freenet.de - 2015-09-10 15:25 -0700
  Re: Python handles globals badly. Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2015-09-10 15:40 -0700
  Re: Python handles globals badly. Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 18:35 -0600
    Re: Python handles globals badly. Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-09-11 07:34 +0300
      Re: Python handles globals badly. Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 14:59 +1000
        Re: Python handles globals badly. Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-09-11 08:15 +0300
          Re: Python handles globals badly. Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 15:25 +1000
          Re: Python handles globals badly. Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-09-12 03:43 +0100
      Re: Python handles globals badly. Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 23:07 -0600
        Re: Python handles globals badly. Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-09-11 08:27 +0300
      Re: Python handles globals badly. Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 00:39 -0700
    Re: Python handles globals badly. Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-09-11 18:42 +1000
      Re: Python handles globals badly. Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 19:16 +1000
      Re: Python handles globals badly. Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 09:03 -0600
        Re: Python handles globals badly. Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-09-12 17:00 +1000
      Re: Python handles globals badly. Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 01:15 +1000
      Re: Python handles globals badly. Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 09:27 -0600
      Re: Python handles globals badly. Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 01:44 +1000
      Re: Python handles globals badly. Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 09:49 -0600
      Re: Python handles globals badly. Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 01:55 +1000
      Re: Python handles globals badly. random832@fastmail.us - 2015-09-11 11:57 -0400
        Re: Python handles globals badly. Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 09:08 -0700
      Re: Python handles globals badly. Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 02:04 +1000
      Re: Python handles globals badly. Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 10:27 -0600
      Re: Python handles globals badly. Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-09-12 03:51 +0100
  Re: Python handles globals badly. MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2015-09-11 02:17 +0100
  Re: Python handles globals badly. Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-09-12 03:27 +0100

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