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Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers?

From Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu>
Subject Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers?
Date 2013-12-04 21:41 +0000
Organization Norwich University
References <15912943-29a1-4365-b027-7bb8cec447f8@googlegroups.com> <mailman.3527.1386093834.18130.python-list@python.org> <eb15e1a8-49b1-4d55-a864-141efc65394e@googlegroups.com> <mailman.3543.1386119133.18130.python-list@python.org> <d13e811f-f496-418a-b737-f4fbf1286cc5@googlegroups.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.3588.1386193334.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On 2013-12-04, Piotr Dobrogost <p@google-groups-2013.dobrogost.net> wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 2:06:44 AM UTC+1, Tim Chase wrote:
>>
>> I think random832 is saying that the designed purpose of setattr()
>> was to dynamically set attributes by name, so they could later be
>> accessed the traditional way; not designed from the ground-up to
>> support non-identifier names.  But because of the getattr/setattr
>> machinery (dict key/value pairs), it doesn't prevent you from having
>> non-identifiers as names as long as you use only the getattr/setattr
>> method of accessing them.
>
> Right. If there's already a way to have attributes with these
> "non-standard" names (which is a good thing)

At best its a neutral thing. You can use dict for the same
purpose with very little effort and no(?) loss of efficiency.

> then for uniformity with dot access to attributes with
> "standard" names there should be a variant of dot access
> allowing to access these "non-standard" named attributes, too.

New syntax needs more than theoretical justifications; it needs
persuasive use cases.

Using invalid identifiers as attributes is generally a bad idea,
not something to do commonly. Your proposed syntax leaves the
distinction between valid and invalid identifiers a problem the
programmer has to deal with. It doesn't unify access to
attributes the way the getattr and setattr do.

-- 
Neil Cerutti

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Thread

Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Piotr Dobrogost <p@google-groups-2013.dobrogost.net> - 2013-12-03 09:14 -0800
  Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-12-03 12:38 -0500
  Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names
 not being valid identifiers? Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-12-03 12:48 -0500
    Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Piotr Dobrogost <p@google-groups-2013.dobrogost.net> - 2013-12-04 14:05 -0800
      Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with
 names not being valid identifiers? Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-12-04 17:28 -0500
  Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-12-03 09:31 -0800
    Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Piotr Dobrogost <p@google-groups-2013.dobrogost.net> - 2013-12-03 15:49 -0800
  Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? random832@fastmail.us - 2013-12-03 13:03 -0500
    Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Piotr Dobrogost <p@google-groups-2013.dobrogost.net> - 2013-12-03 15:47 -0800
      Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-12-03 19:06 -0600
        Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Piotr Dobrogost <p@google-groups-2013.dobrogost.net> - 2013-12-04 12:35 -0800
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-04 20:46 +0000
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Jerry Hill <malaclypse2@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 15:58 -0500
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-12-04 13:02 -0800
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-12-04 21:41 +0000
            Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Piotr Dobrogost <p@google-groups-2013.dobrogost.net> - 2013-12-04 13:54 -0800
              Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-12-06 14:07 +0000
                Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Piotr Dobrogost <p@google-groups-2013.dobrogost.net> - 2013-12-06 08:51 -0800
                Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2013-12-07 00:47 +0000
            Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Piotr Dobrogost <p@google-groups-2013.dobrogost.net> - 2013-12-04 14:13 -0800
              Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-12-04 15:09 -0800
                Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Piotr Dobrogost <p@google-groups-2013.dobrogost.net> - 2013-12-04 15:57 -0800
                Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-12-04 16:26 -0800
                Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-12-04 20:17 -0500
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-12-04 21:58 -0500
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-12-04 19:05 -0800
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-05 07:56 +0000
      Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2013-12-03 21:45 -0800
        Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-03 22:31 -0800
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 01:57 -0700
            Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 02:09 -0800
              Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-12-04 11:29 +0100
                Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 04:01 -0800
                Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-12-04 13:32 +0100
                Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 05:02 -0800
                Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-12-04 20:57 +0100
              Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 21:33 +1100
                Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 03:27 -0800
              Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-12-04 05:25 -0600
              Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2013-12-04 13:30 +0200
                Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 22:40 +1100
                Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-12-04 07:56 -0800
              Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 19:43 -0700
                Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 20:48 -0800
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-12-04 19:27 -0500
            Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-04 20:03 -0500
        Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-12-04 01:12 -0800
        Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-04 08:23 -0500
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Piotr Dobrogost <p@google-groups-2013.dobrogost.net> - 2013-12-04 13:00 -0800
        Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Piotr Dobrogost <p@google-groups-2013.dobrogost.net> - 2013-12-04 12:07 -0800
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-12-04 12:22 -0800
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-04 20:55 +0000
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-12-04 13:00 -0800
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-12-04 17:11 -0500
            Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Piotr Dobrogost <p@google-groups-2013.dobrogost.net> - 2013-12-04 15:42 -0800
              Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-12-04 22:21 -0500
          Re: Why is there no natural syntax for accessing attributes with names not being valid identifiers? Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2013-12-05 01:50 +0000

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