Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #32346

Re: Negative array indicies and slice()

Show key headers only | View raw

On Sunday, October 28, 2012 9:26:01 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:00 PM,  Andrew wrote:
> 
> > Hi Ian,
> 
> > Well, no it really isn't equivalent.
> 
> > Consider a programmer who writes:
> 
> > xrange(-4,3) *wants* [-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2]
> 
> >
> 
> > That is the "idea" of a range; for what reason would anyone *EVER* want -4 to +3 to be 6:3???
> 
> 
> 
> That is what ranges do, but your question was about slices, not ranges.

Actually, I said in the OP:

"I also don't understand why slice() is not equivalent to an iterator, but can replace an integer in __getitem__() whereas xrange() can't."

=========================

Thank you for the code snippet; I don't think it likely that existing programs depend on nor use a negative index and a positive index expecting to take a small chunk in the center... hence, I would return the whole array; Or if someone said [-len(listX) : len(listX)+1 ] I would return the whole array twice.
That's the maximum that is possible.
If someone could show me a normal/reasonable script which *would* expect the other behavior, I'd like to know; compatibility is important.

=========================

My intended inferences about the iterator vs. slice question was perhaps not obvious to you; Notice: an iterator is not *allowed* in __getitem__().

The slice class when passed to __getitem__()  was created to merely pass two numbers and a stride to __getitem__;  As far as I know slice() itself does *nothing* in the actual processing of the elements.  So, it's *redundant* functionality, and far worse, it's restrictive.

The philosophy of Python is to have exactly one way to do something when possible; so, why create a stand alone class that does nothing an existing class could already do, and do it better ?

A simple list of three values would be just as efficient as slice()!
xrange is more flexible, and can be just as efficient.

So, Have I misunderstood the operation of slice()?  I think I might have... but I don't know.

In 'C', where Python is written, circularly linked lists -- and arrays are both very efficient ways of accessing data.  Arrays can, in fact, have negative indexes -- perhaps contrary to what you thought.  One merely defines a variable to act as the base pointer to the array and initialize it to the *end* of the array. Nor is the size of the data elements an issue, since in Python all classes are accessed by pointers which are of uniform size. I routinely do this in C.

Consider, also, that xrange() does not actually create a list -- but merely an iterator generating integers which is exactly what __getitem__ works on.
So, xrange() does not need to incur a memory or noticeable time penalty.

>From micro-python, it's clear that their implementation of xrange() is at the 'C' level; which is extremely fast.

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Negative array indicies and slice() andrewr3mail@gmail.com - 2012-10-28 20:12 -0700
  Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-28 21:42 -0600
    Re: Negative array indicies and slice() andrewr3mail@gmail.com - 2012-10-28 21:00 -0700
      Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-28 22:25 -0600
        Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew <andrewr3mail@gmail.com> - 2012-10-29 00:54 -0700
          Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2012-10-29 01:18 -0700
          Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-29 11:19 +0000
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-29 22:32 +1100
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew Robinson <andrew3@r3dsolutions.com> - 2012-10-28 21:52 -0700
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-29 23:40 +1100
              Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-29 22:02 +0000
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew Robinson <andrew3@r3dsolutions.com> - 2012-10-28 23:01 -0700
              Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-10-29 09:52 -0400
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew Robinson <andrew3@r3dsolutions.com> - 2012-10-29 08:20 -0700
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-29 17:01 -0600
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-10-30 00:04 +0000
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew Robinson <andrew3@r3dsolutions.com> - 2012-10-29 16:54 -0700
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-30 02:15 -0600
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-30 00:53 +1100
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-29 11:09 -0600
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-29 22:14 +0000
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew Robinson <andrew3@r3dsolutions.com> - 2012-10-29 08:42 -0700
              Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-30 00:02 +0000
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew Robinson <andrew3@r3dsolutions.com> - 2012-10-29 12:34 -0700
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-30 08:17 +0000
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew Robinson <andrew3@r3dsolutions.com> - 2012-10-30 08:47 -0700
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-30 23:48 +0000
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-10-30 23:29 -0600
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-10-29 23:53 -0600
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew Robinson <andrew3@r3dsolutions.com> - 2012-10-29 17:04 -0700
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-30 09:55 +1100
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-29 17:07 -0600
              Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-10-29 19:24 -0400
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-29 17:43 -0600
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-10-29 20:17 -0400
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-29 18:05 -0600
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew Robinson <andrew3@r3dsolutions.com> - 2012-10-29 11:00 -0700
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2012-10-29 18:49 -0700
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew Robinson <andrew3@r3dsolutions.com> - 2012-10-29 15:39 -0700
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-29 23:55 -0600
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-30 00:51 -0600
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew Robinson <andrew3@r3dsolutions.com> - 2012-10-29 17:17 -0700
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-30 01:21 -0600
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-30 01:32 -0600
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-30 02:46 -0600
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-30 12:02 -0600
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew Robinson <andrew3@r3dsolutions.com> - 2012-10-30 07:21 -0700
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-30 21:33 +0000
              Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-31 10:07 +0000
                Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-31 16:01 +0000
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-30 15:47 -0600
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-30 15:55 -0600
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-31 09:00 +1100
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-30 16:02 -0600
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-30 23:30 +0000
          Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-29 11:27 -0600
          Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew Robinson <andrew3@r3dsolutions.com> - 2012-10-29 16:33 -0700
        Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew <andrewr3mail@gmail.com> - 2012-10-29 00:54 -0700
    Re: Negative array indicies and slice() andrewr3mail@gmail.com - 2012-10-28 21:00 -0700
    Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew <andrewr3mail@gmail.com> - 2012-10-28 21:09 -0700
      Re: Negative array indicies and slice() alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-10-28 21:44 -0700
        Re: Negative array indicies and slice() andrewr3mail@gmail.com - 2012-10-29 01:24 -0700
          Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2012-10-29 01:37 -0700
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() andrewr3mail@gmail.com - 2012-10-29 01:59 -0700
              Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-29 09:36 +0000
              Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-29 10:34 +0000
            Re: Negative array indicies and slice() andrewr3mail@gmail.com - 2012-10-29 01:59 -0700
      Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-28 22:14 -0700
        Re: Negative array indicies and slice() andrewr3mail@gmail.com - 2012-10-29 01:08 -0700
          Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2012-10-29 01:26 -0700
    Re: Negative array indicies and slice() Andrew <andrewr3mail@gmail.com> - 2012-10-28 21:09 -0700
  Re: Negative array indicies and slice() MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-10-29 03:45 +0000
  Re: Negative array indicies and slice() 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-11-01 18:08 -0700

csiph-web