Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #26598

Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

Path csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed5.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path <python-python-list@m.gmane.org>
X-Original-To python-list@python.org
Delivered-To python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status OK 0.005
X-Spam-Evidence '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:: [': 0.03; 'operator': 0.03; 'patterns': 0.04; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'objects,': 0.07; 'aliases': 0.09; 'expense': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'aug': 0.13; 'represents': 0.15; 'finer': 0.16; 'function"': 0.16; 'objects?': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'subject:object': 0.16; 'subject:oriented': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'those,': 0.16; 'subject:] ': 0.19; 'sort': 0.21; '(usually': 0.22; "i've": 0.23; 'second': 0.24; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.28; "d'aprano": 0.29; 'steven': 0.29; 'manual': 0.29; '"the': 0.29; 'probably': 0.29; 'e.g.': 0.30; '(and': 0.32; 'implement': 0.32; "aren't": 0.33; 'url:home': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.33; 'everyone': 0.33; 'requirements': 0.33; "can't": 0.34; 'software,': 0.35; 'sometimes': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'received:org': 0.36; 'really': 0.36; 'but': 0.36; 'useful': 0.36; 'subject:with': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'why': 0.37; 'late': 0.37; 'previous': 0.37; 'mean': 0.38; 'some': 0.38; 'sure': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'think': 0.40; 'telling': 0.61; 'first': 0.61; 'ever': 0.63; 'times': 0.63; 'skip:n 10': 0.63; 'become': 0.65; 'differences': 0.65; 'lights': 0.65; 'soon': 0.70; 'sounds': 0.71; 'mystical': 0.84; 'subject:good': 0.84; 'surge': 0.84; 'beings': 0.91; 'dennis': 0.91; 'indicator': 0.91; 'payroll': 0.93
X-Injected-Via-Gmane http://gmane.org/
To python-list@python.org
From Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com>
Subject Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python
Date Sun, 05 Aug 2012 21:14:04 -0400
Organization > Bestiaria Support Staff <
References <54b916fe-9e2d-4f9e-b533-b5ecf677c8a5@a19g2000vba.googlegroups.com> <sqednRxYjp0OUIPNnZ2dnUVZ8rednZ2d@bt.com> <501f0e4a$0$29867$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Mime-Version 1.0
Content-Type text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding 7bit
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host adsl-76-253-109-235.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net
X-Newsreader Forte Agent 3.3/32.846
X-No-Archive YES
X-BeenThere python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version 2.1.12
Precedence list
List-Id General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe <http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list>
List-Post <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.2994.1344215659.4697.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
Lines 40
NNTP-Posting-Host 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace 1344215659 news.xs4all.nl 6844 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:33386
X-Complaints-To abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref csiph.com comp.lang.python:26598

Show key headers only | View raw

On 06 Aug 2012 00:22:34 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> declaimed the following in
gmane.comp.python.general:

> Is this some sort of mystical "humans aren't objects, they're SPECIAL!!!" 
> rubbish? Because it sure sounds like it.
> 
> Can you give some non-religious reasons why you should not implement 
> human beings or aliases as objects?
>

	I think it's an over-simplification of humans being "actors" who
drive the software, and not something ("chess pieces") that the software
should be driving. (OTOH: how many remember that surge in "up-shift"
indicator lights on manual transmission cars, near the late 70s early
80s? The few times I drove one of those, it was telling me to up-shift
as soon as I let out the clutch from the previous up-shift).

	Though to me, that really means there should be no requirements
phrased as "the operator shall <do something to the software>"; it
should be "the software shall <respond to operator activity>".

	Taken literally, the prohibition would mean no modeling of Employees
in a payroll or HR system -- since Employee represents a person working
for the company.
> The emphasis on *names* is just jargon, design patterns are actually just 
> problem-solving techniques. Sometimes it's useful to have jargon that 
> everyone recognises, e.g. "factory function" and "singleton" are two I 
> consistently remember (and I use the first *all the time* and the second 
> *never*), but often Design Pattern proponents become side-tracked into 
> finer and finer differences of greater and greater abstraction, at the 
> expense of clarity.
>
	While I've probably used singletons (usually as sentinels in queues,
I suspect), but can't say that I've ever used a "factory function"...

-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
        wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

[newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Jean Dubois <jeandubois314@gmail.com> - 2012-08-04 08:49 -0700
  Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python shearichard@gmail.com - 2012-08-04 17:11 -0700
    Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Jean Dubois <jeandubois314@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 05:38 -0700
    Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Jean Dubois <jeandubois314@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 11:04 -0700
      Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-05 19:28 +0100
        Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Jean Dubois <jeandubois314@gmail.com> - 2012-08-06 07:56 -0700
          Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 17:17 +0100
            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-07 01:12 +0000
              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-08-07 11:23 +1000
              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 08:49 +0100
      Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-05 14:39 -0400
      Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-05 19:53 +0100
      Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-05 18:45 -0400
        Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-05 22:51 +0000
          Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-05 19:12 -0400
            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 00:30 +0100
            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-06 00:27 +0000
              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2012-08-05 17:50 -0700
              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 08:48 +0100
              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python DJC <djc@news.invalid> - 2012-08-06 11:20 +0200
            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-05 20:57 -0400
          Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 08:43 +0100
            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-06 09:16 -0400
        Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Wolfgang Strobl <news4@mystrobl.de> - 2012-08-06 08:18 +0200
  Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python dncarac@gmail.com - 2012-08-05 11:59 -0700
  Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-05 20:46 +0100
    Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-05 23:11 +0100
      Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-05 18:53 -0400
    Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-06 00:22 +0000
      Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 02:02 +0100
      Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-05 21:14 -0400
        Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-06 06:08 +0000
          Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-06 00:25 -0700
      Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 19:44 -0700
        Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-07 19:02 +0000
          Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-08-07 18:37 -0400
          Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 17:07 -0700
            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-08 02:14 +0000
              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-08 12:24 +1000
              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 20:20 -0700
      Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 09:55 +0100
        Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 10:24 +0100
          Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-07 05:35 +0000
            Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 09:16 +0100
        Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-07 05:19 +0000
          Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 10:19 +0100
            Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-08-07 23:12 +1000
              Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 15:13 +0100
            Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-07 14:14 +0000
              Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 15:34 +0100
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 08:04 -0700
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 18:00 +0100
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-08 07:57 +1000
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-08 10:51 +0100
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-08-08 09:27 -0700
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-08 17:28 +0000
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-09 11:32 +1000
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-08 12:42 -0400
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-08 20:31 +0100
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-08 22:59 -0400
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-09 08:29 +0100
                Geneology Packages -- WAS: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Simon Cropper <simoncropper@fossworkflowguides.com> - 2012-08-09 13:51 +1000
                Re: Geneology Packages Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-08-09 14:00 +1000
    Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-08-06 05:19 -0700
      Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 15:27 +0100
        Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-08-06 09:34 -0700
          Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 08:44 +1000
      OT probably but still relevant (was Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 17:23 +0100
        Re: OT probably but still relevant (was Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-07 09:44 +0000
          Re: OT probably but still relevant (was Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 11:23 +0100

csiph-web