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Groups > comp.lang.python > #39854

Re: Python Newbie

Date 2013-02-24 18:42 -0700
From Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Python Newbie
References (12 earlier) <mailman.2454.1361748026.2939.python-list@python.org> <2e9471ad-8320-4f7f-80ba-cd5a7f8f013d@googlegroups.com> <mailman.2461.1361749985.2939.python-list@python.org> <da0ec7a1-decd-4cfb-9a0b-5722879f5864@googlegroups.com> <512ab8aa$0$29998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.2476.1361756531.2939.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On 02/24/2013 06:04 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Variables do not have types in Python.
> 
> Reset your thinking. Python is a dynamic language with name bindings and 
> strongly-typed objects, not a static language with strongly-typed 
> variables. If you don't understand the difference, ask. But so long as 
> you make the wrong assumptions about the language, you will have a bad 
> time.

Yes, but according to my computer language theory class, strictly
speaking, python has no variables, only names and objects, which for the
most part aren't mutable.  A variable by definition is a box in memory
that you can write to.  The closest thing python has to that are
instances of mutable types like a list.

"a=5" certainly doesn't allocate a box in memory somewhere and stick 5
in it.  And then later "a += 1" or "a=6" doesn't mutate the value stored
in the box represented by a.  Instead it allocates a new object and
makes a refer to that new object.

I know all this is what you meant, but with the original poster's
frustrations with python, it's important that he just throw out the
notion of variations entirely because sooner or later that will get him
in trouble here, like if he tries to make an empty list be a default
value for a function parameter.

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Python Newbie Piterrr <piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com> - 2013-02-21 13:26 -0800
  Re: Python Newbie Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-02-21 14:54 -0700
  Re: Python Newbie MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-02-21 21:58 +0000
  Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 08:59 +1100
  Re: Python Newbie Peter Pearson <ppearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2013-02-21 22:03 +0000
  Re: Python Newbie Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-02-21 17:22 -0500
  Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-21 14:40 -0800
    Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 10:21 +1100
      Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-21 15:34 -0800
        Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-21 23:48 +0000
        Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 11:32 +1100
        Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 11:58 -0700
      Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-21 15:34 -0800
    Re: Python Newbie Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-02-21 23:27 +0000
    Re: Python Newbie Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-02-21 16:55 -0700
    Re: Python Newbie rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-02-21 22:57 -0800
    Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-22 10:26 +0000
      Re: Python Newbie Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 12:05 +0100
      Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 22:23 +1100
    Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 16:04 -0700
    Re: Python Newbie Vito De Tullio <vito.detullio@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 09:23 +0100
    Re: Python Newbie "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2013-02-24 23:02 -0300
      Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 21:03 -0500
        Re: Python Newbie "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2013-02-24 23:35 -0300
        Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 13:31 +1100
  Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-21 19:35 -0500
  Re: Python Newbie Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-21 23:50 -0500
    Re: Python Newbie Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 11:58 +0000
      Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 23:12 +1100
        Re: Python Newbie Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 13:50 +0000
          Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 01:05 +1100
            Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-23 00:03 +0000
              Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 11:21 +1100
          Re: Python Newbie Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-22 14:26 +0000
            Re: Python Newbie Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 15:45 +0100
              Re: Python Newbie Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-22 15:02 +0000
            Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 02:06 +1100
              Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-22 13:37 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 22:08 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-02-22 15:45 -0700
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-22 15:38 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 11:17 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-23 13:29 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 08:38 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 15:52 -0700
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 10:18 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-23 15:46 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2013-02-23 20:20 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-24 14:34 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 07:46 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 02:52 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 11:22 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-24 17:44 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 11:29 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 21:35 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 14:43 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 18:05 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 23:13 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 14:43 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2013-02-26 00:32 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-02-26 10:23 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-26 10:59 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-02-26 13:30 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 18:31 -0700
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 09:08 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 23:18 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 22:51 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 15:38 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 10:45 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-24 15:53 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 16:08 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 00:28 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-25 00:38 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-24 16:33 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 00:45 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 19:50 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-25 01:04 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 12:27 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 18:42 -0700
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 12:24 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 01:44 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 12:53 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-02-25 02:23 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-24 18:59 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 16:08 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 19:42 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 15:38 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 23:21 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-02-24 17:47 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 14:40 +0200
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 07:46 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 22:23 -0700
                Re: Python Newbie MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-02-24 00:11 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-24 12:37 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 10:56 -0700
                Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 13:07 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-24 21:01 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-22 15:38 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-02-22 20:04 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-02-22 18:48 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-22 20:47 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-23 02:02 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 13:18 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-24 18:19 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 07:25 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-22 21:40 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 13:48 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-23 02:59 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-23 13:34 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 08:40 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-24 12:41 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-23 04:13 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 11:48 +0200
                Re: Python Newbie Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 12:30 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 16:43 +0100
                Re: Python Newbie jmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 10:44 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 12:13 -0700
                Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-23 11:08 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie jmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 12:53 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 08:48 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-24 00:02 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 12:16 -0700
                Re: Python Newbie Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2013-02-24 00:06 +0100
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 02:51 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2013-02-24 00:04 +0100
                Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-23 08:32 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 18:39 +0100
                Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 12:19 -0700
                Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-24 17:11 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 11:40 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-24 15:06 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie "Michael Ross" <gmx@ross.cx> - 2013-02-24 21:33 +0100
                Re: Python Newbie MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-02-24 20:34 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-24 20:41 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-24 12:34 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 07:42 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 15:48 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 21:58 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-24 21:08 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 02:59 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 07:47 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 07:58 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-24 16:08 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 08:44 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-24 17:40 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-25 01:11 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-25 00:42 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-24 18:34 -0700
                Re: Python Newbie Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-02-24 14:33 -0800
                Re: Python Newbie Albert Hopkins <marduk@letterboxes.org> - 2013-02-24 18:32 -0500
                Re: Python Newbie Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 10:44 +1100
                Re: Python Newbie Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-25 01:06 +0000
                Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-24 11:40 -0800
              Re: Python Newbie piterrr.dolinski@gmail.com - 2013-02-22 13:37 -0800
      Re: Python Newbie Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-22 20:05 -0500
  Re: Python Newbie Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2013-02-23 12:32 -0500
  Re: Python Newbie Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 19:10 +0100
  Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 11:40 -0700
  Re: Python Newbie Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-02-23 12:15 -0700
  Re: Python Newbie Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2013-02-23 17:49 -0500
  Re: Python Newbie Nick Mellor <thebalancepro@gmail.com> - 2013-02-25 19:37 -0800

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