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Re: Aggressive language on python-list

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Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> writes:

> I'm a mostly passive subscriber to this list - my posts here over the
> years could probably be counted without having to take my socks off -
> so perhaps I have no right to comment, but I've noticed a marked
> increase in aggressive language here lately, so I'm putting my head
> above the parapet to say that I don't appreciate it.

Thanks for speaking up, Zero. You are certainly not alone in this.

“Ignore the trolls” is not helpful advice if one wants to maintain a
useful and friendly environment. If the hostile behaviour you refer to
goes unchallenged, the helpful contributors become drowned out and
eventually leave from fatigue. So ignoring trolls is not enough if we
want the friendly and useful conversations to continue.

Ignoring hostile behaviour also sends the wrong signal to newcomers and
casual observers: that this is not a community which cares about
actively upholding good standards of behaviour.

What's needed, IMO, is a difficult balance: there needs to be calm,
low-volume, but firm response to instances of hostile behaviour, making
clear by demonstration – especially to the people only observing the
discussion – that such hostility is unwanted and not to be tolerated in
our community.

This is difficult to achieve, though, because if *lots* of people do it,
the thread turns into a dogpile that is also unhelpful, and usually
departs from civil and rational discussion quickly. All of this turns
away more good people (again, often people who otherwise weeren't
involved in the particular discussion), so is counter-productive.

So my request is: Be selective, and be calm.


Don't respond deep in an existing exchange, especially one where many
others have already responded to that person. Be selective and only
respond when yours will be one of the first in the thread. (And that's
not a mandate to have a quick trigger :-)

Don't keep responding in a series of exchanges; it makes your messages
difficult for newcomers to tell apart from the voluminous noise of the
troll.

When responding to a troll, don't be inflammatory yourself – that is
*exactly* what they seek, a continuation and escalation of the conflict.

Point out exactly what you think they're doing wrong, simply and calmly,
and don't go on at length. Keep the innocent reader in mind, don't care
too much about the troll reading your response.

To those who feel the need to “fight” the trolls: thank you for caring
enough about the Python community to try to defend it. But I'm concerned
that you tend to pour fuel on the flames yourself, and I hope you can
work to avoid becoming the monster you fight.

> And, yes, I know bringing it up could be construed as stoking the
> flames ... but, well, "silence = acquiescence" and all that.

Agreed. Thanks again.

-- 
 \        “Intellectual property is to the 21st century what the slave |
  `\                              trade was to the 16th.” —David Mertz |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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Re: Aggressive language on python-list Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-10-15 08:58 +1100
  Re: Aggressive language on python-list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-14 20:22 -0700
    Re: Aggressive language on python-list alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-10-14 21:36 -0700
      Re: Aggressive language on python-list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-16 09:27 -0700
        Re: Aggressive language on python-list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-16 16:49 +0000
          RE: Aggressive language on python-list "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-10-16 20:17 +0000
            Re: Aggressive language on python-list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-16 14:12 -0700
          Re: Aggressive language on python-list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-16 14:10 -0700
            Re: Aggressive language on python-list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-17 02:45 +0000
              Re: Aggressive language on python-list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-17 02:50 +0000
              Re: Aggressive language on python-list Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 23:01 -0400
              Re: Aggressive language on python-list "Kristen J. Webb" <kwebb@teradactyl.com> - 2012-10-16 21:47 -0600
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 21:25 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 21:43 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 23:15 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 00:25 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-17 06:24 +0000
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 18:36 +1100
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-17 09:40 +0100
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-17 14:29 +0000
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 01:35 +1100
              Re: Aggressive language on python-list Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-10-17 15:33 +1100
              Re: Aggressive language on python-list Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-10-17 01:15 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-17 14:32 +0000
              Re: Aggressive language on python-list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-17 09:48 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 05:16 +1100
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-17 12:20 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-17 12:53 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 21:28 +0100
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-17 14:10 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-17 23:17 +0000
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 17:39 -0600
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-17 17:24 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 19:51 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 19:53 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 18:02 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 21:13 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 00:02 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 21:06 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 00:21 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 21:24 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 00:35 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 15:28 +1100
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 21:36 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 01:17 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 23:19 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list David Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 02:27 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 00:30 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 03:07 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-10-18 05:43 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 00:37 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 00:05 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 21:11 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 00:26 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 21:31 -0700
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 00:57 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-18 05:29 +0000
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list David Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 01:43 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 11:11 +0100
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 15:23 +1100
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 00:33 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 15:42 +1100
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Hguant <hguant@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 01:11 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2012-10-18 16:09 +0000
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 20:02 -0400
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 01:44 +0100
                Re: Aggressive language on python-list Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-18 01:55 +0100
        Re: Aggressive language on python-list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 20:00 -0700

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