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| From | Ryan Stuart <ryan.stuart.85@gmail.com> |
| Date | Mon, 23 Feb 2015 07:32:00 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Future of Pypy? |
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On Mon Feb 23 2015 at 4:15:42 PM Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote: > > What do you mean about Queues working with processes? I meant > Queue.Queue. There is multiprocessing.Queue but that's much less > capable, and it uses cumbersome IPC like pipes or sockets instead of a > lighter weight lock. Threads can also share read-only data and you can > pass arbitrary objects (such as code callables that you want the other > thread to execute--this is quite useful) through Queue.Queue. I don't > think you can do that with the multiprocessing module. > These things might be convenient but they are error prone for the reasons pointed out. Also, the majority can be achieved via the process approach. For example, using fork to take a copy of the current process (including the heap) you want to use will give you access to any callables on the heap. The vital point here is that fork takes a *copy* of the process and runs in a *separate* memory space. This means there can be no accidents here. If it were to run in the same memory space like a thread then bugs anywhere in the code you run could cause very nasty problems. This includes not only bugs in your code, but also bugs in any other library code. Not only are they nasty, they could be close to invisible. And when I saw any code you run, I literally mean any. Even if you are extra careful to not touch any shared state in your code, you can almost be guaranteed that code higher up the stack, like malloc for example, *will* be using shared state. The risk of unintended and difficult to track issues when using threads is very high because of shared state. Even if you aren't sharing state in your code directly, code higher up the stack will be sharing state. That is the whole point of a thread, that's what they were invented for. Using threads safely might well be impossible much less verifiable. So when there are other options that are just as viable/functional, result in far less risk and are often much quicker to implement correctly, why wouldn't you use them? If it were easy to use threads in a verifiably safe manner, then there probably wouldn't be a GIL. Cheers > -- > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list >
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Future of Pypy? Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> - 2015-02-22 12:45 +0000
Re: Future of Pypy? jkn <jkn_gg@nicorp.f9.co.uk> - 2015-02-22 04:58 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> - 2015-02-22 15:30 +0000
[OT] - BASIC is still not a bad choice, was Re: Future of Pypy? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-02-23 17:24 -0700
Re: Future of Pypy? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-02-22 14:27 +0100
Re: Future of Pypy? Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> - 2015-02-22 15:36 +0000
Re: Future of Pypy? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-02-22 18:22 +0100
Re: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-22 11:02 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-02-22 20:51 +0100
Re: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-22 12:14 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-02-22 23:13 +0100
Re: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-22 18:45 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-23 12:18 +1100
Re: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-22 18:04 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-23 13:16 +1100
Re: Future of Pypy? Ryan Stuart <ryan.stuart.85@gmail.com> - 2015-02-23 03:16 +0000
Re: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-22 19:45 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Ryan Stuart <ryan.stuart.85@gmail.com> - 2015-02-23 04:00 +0000
Re: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-22 22:13 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Ryan Stuart <ryan.stuart.85@gmail.com> - 2015-02-23 07:32 +0000
Re: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-23 16:11 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-24 11:31 +1100
Re: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-23 17:50 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-24 13:03 +1100
Re: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-23 20:40 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-24 17:57 +1100
Re: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-27 13:40 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-02-27 18:47 -0500
Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Ryan Stuart <ryan.stuart.85@gmail.com> - 2015-02-24 00:35 +0000
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-23 21:27 -0800
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-24 16:57 +1100
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-23 22:23 -0800
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-02-24 10:08 +0200
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-24 15:53 -0800
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-02-25 07:25 +0200
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Marcos Almeida Azevedo <marcos.al.azevedo@gmail.com> - 2015-02-25 13:34 +0800
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-02-25 07:46 +0200
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-25 16:54 +1100
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Marcos Almeida Azevedo <marcos.al.azevedo@gmail.com> - 2015-02-25 13:58 +0800
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-02-24 23:02 -0700
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-25 17:07 +1100
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-02-25 16:37 +0000
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-02-25 10:00 -0700
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-02-25 17:16 +0000
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-26 04:22 +1100
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-02-25 19:44 -0500
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Ryan Stuart <ryan.stuart.85@gmail.com> - 2015-02-25 00:59 +0000
Re: Are threads bad? - was: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-26 21:55 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-23 14:25 +1100
Re: Future of Pypy? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-23 18:41 +1100
Re: Future of Pypy? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-02-23 10:16 +0200
Re: Future of Pypy? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-23 20:19 +1100
Re: Future of Pypy? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-24 17:56 +1100
Re: Future of Pypy? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-24 18:16 +1100
Re: Future of Pypy? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-02-23 23:57 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-02-23 11:39 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-24 13:15 +1100
Re: Future of Pypy? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-23 17:47 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-02-24 10:12 +0200
Re: Future of Pypy? Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2015-02-24 09:57 -0800
Re: Future of Pypy? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-23 01:05 +1100
Re: Future of Pypy? Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> - 2015-02-22 15:44 +0000
Re: Future of Pypy? Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> - 2015-02-22 19:20 +0000
Re: Future of Pypy? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-02-22 22:45 +0100
Re: Future of Pypy? Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> - 2015-02-23 14:04 +0000
Re: Future of Pypy? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-02-23 17:16 +0100
Re: Future of Pypy? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-02-23 01:34 -0500
Re: Future of Pypy? Dave Cook <davecook@nowhere.net> - 2015-02-23 11:36 +0000
Re: Future of Pypy? Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> - 2015-02-23 14:13 +0000
Cython - was: Future of Pypy? Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2015-02-23 16:43 +0100
Re: Future of Pypy? Dave Cook <davecook@nowhere.net> - 2015-02-23 23:23 +0000
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