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Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty

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From Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
Subject Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty
Date Sun, 10 Feb 2013 16:44:25 -0500
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On 2/10/2013 1:45 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
> On Sunday, February 10, 2013 2:39:21 AM UTC-6, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> While it is true that sorted(iterable) is essentially
>>
>> def sorted(iterable):
>>     tem = list(iterable)
>>     tem.sort
>>     return tem
>>
>> the body is not an expression and cannot be substituted in an
>> expression.
>
> Yes but the body can be compressed to this single line: "list(iterable).sort()"

That single line now evaluates to None, so that does not work.

>> Even if list mutation methods returned the list, which they do not and
>> for good reason,
>
> I am not proposing that in-place modification return the object.

It seems to me that you are, as that is the only way for 
'list(iterable).sort()' to replace 'sorted(iterable)', as you proposed 
both originally and above.

The reason sorted(iterable) was added is 'list(iterable).sort()', which 
newbies would try, *does not work*. Sorted was added so people would not 
have to write

tem = list(iterable)
tem.sort()
<statement using tem>
del tem

as they did previously, and instead could write

<statement using sorted(iterable)>

Reversed was added not only for the same reason, but also to avoid the 
temporary list altogether when not actually needed, which it often or 
usually is not.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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Thread

LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-08 17:50 -0800
  Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-09 14:36 +1100
    Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 19:54 -0800
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 15:20 +1100
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 20:53 -0800
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 01:29 +1100
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-02-10 14:03 -0500
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 11:11 +1100
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 13:28 -0800
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 11:10 +1100
              Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 17:14 -0800
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 08:51 +1100
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 14:01 -0800
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-02-10 03:39 -0500
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 10:45 -0800
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-02-10 16:44 -0500
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 11:11 +1100
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 10:45 -0800
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-10 22:29 +1100
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 00:24 +1100
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 01:00 +1100
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-02-10 07:52 -0600
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 15:59 -0800
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-02-10 18:12 -0600
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 17:24 -0800
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 17:24 -0800
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 11:36 +1100
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-02-11 02:03 +0000
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 04:53 -0800
              Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-12 00:27 +1100
                Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 20:55 -0800
                Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 21:28 -0800
                Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-12 12:46 -0800
                Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-12 12:46 -0800
                Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 20:55 -0800
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 18:05 -0800
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-11 07:19 +0000
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 18:24 +1100
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-11 07:35 +0000
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Tim Chase <tim@thechases.com> - 2013-02-11 06:04 -0600
            Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2013-02-11 19:07 +0200
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 13:30 +0000
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 16:25 -0800
          Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-11 11:42 +1100
        Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 16:25 -0800
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 10:45 -0800
    Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2013-02-10 06:33 -0800
  Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 15:51 +1100
    Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 17:56 -0800
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-12 19:06 +1100
  Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Neil Hodgson <nhodgson@iinet.net.au> - 2013-02-10 20:53 +1100
    Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-10 22:30 +1100
    Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-10 10:55 -0800
      Re: LangWart: Method congestion from mutate multiplicty Neil Hodgson <nhodgson@iinet.net.au> - 2013-02-11 08:57 +1100

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