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Re: checking if a list is empty

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On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 11:46 PM, rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> The boolean domain is only a 100 years old.
> Unsurprisingly it is not quite 'first-class' yet: See

It is nowadays. Every halfway-mainstream language I can think of has
an explicit boolean datatype. Heck, as of C99, even C has one now. I
conjecture the only languages still lacking one are exotic
niche/fringe languages. I would be interested to see a counterexample.

> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1070.html
> [Lifted from http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EqualVsTrueFalse ]
>
> ----------------------------
> "In retrospect, one might be tempted to regard the introduction of
> something as simple as the boolean domain as a minor invention, but I
> think that that would be a grave mistake: it is a great invention
> because, being so simple, it is such a powerful simplifier. It is of
> the same level as the introduction of natural numbers, which enabled
> us to add 3 to 5, regardless of whether we are adding apples or
> pears."
>
> "George Boole made a radical invention, so radical, in fact, that now,
> more than a century later, the scientific community has not absorbed
> it yet. (To stay with the metaphor: officially, boolean expressions
> may have reached the status of first-class citizens, in practice —
> because old habits and prejudices die hard— they are still the victims
> of discrimination.) Let me give you a few examples."
>
> "In the programming language FORTRAN, as conceived a century after
> Boole published his invention, boolean expressions are allowed, but
> there are no boolean variables! Their introduction into programming
> had to wait until the design of ALGOL 60."
>
> ------------------------
> So, M Harris problem is that python could almost be a language for the
> 'masses' (whatever that might mean) were it not for warts like "l not
> is empty" is shorten-able to just "l"

One language's wart is another language's idiom. And I think the
irrational hate towards syntactically-significant indentation is by
far a much larger barrier to "mass" adoption of Python; C++ has some
features that are at least (if not more) subtle/unobvious than
Python's __bool__(), yet it still enjoys "mass" use.

> Dijkstra's problem (paraphrased) is that python, by choosing the
> FORTRAN alternative of having a non-first-class boolean type, hinders
> scientific/mathematical thinking/progress.

Python has *not* chosen the Fortran alternative; *it has a first-class
Boolean type*, namely bool. This line of argument thus fails.
The fact that other types are implicitly coercible to bools doesn't
make `bool` itself any less first-class.

It is also ironic that one of the projects that exploits Python's
flexible typing regarding normally-Boolean operators is a scientific
one (NumPy).

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://rebertia.com

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checking if a list is empty Jabba Laci <jabba.laci@gmail.com> - 2011-05-06 02:36 -0400
  Re: checking if a list is empty Richard Thomas <chardster@gmail.com> - 2011-05-06 03:34 -0700
  Re: checking if a list is empty scattered <tooscattered@gmail.com> - 2011-05-06 14:57 -0700
    Re: checking if a list is empty Philip Semanchuk <philip@semanchuk.com> - 2011-05-06 18:21 -0400
    Re: checking if a list is empty Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-05-06 17:51 -0600
      Re: checking if a list is empty Jon Clements <joncle@googlemail.com> - 2011-05-06 17:43 -0700
        Re: checking if a list is empty Hans Mulder <hansmu@xs4all.nl> - 2011-05-14 10:52 +0200
    Re: checking if a list is empty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-07 02:51 +0000
      Re: checking if a list is empty Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-11 10:02 +0100
        Re: checking if a list is empty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-11 12:14 +0000
          Re: checking if a list is empty Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-11 15:05 +0100
            Re: checking if a list is empty "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2011-05-11 10:27 -0400
              Re: checking if a list is empty Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-11 18:59 +0100
                Re: checking if a list is empty alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-05-11 20:16 -0700
                Re: checking if a list is empty Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-12 06:20 +0100
            Re: checking if a list is empty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-11 15:50 +0000
              Re: checking if a list is empty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-12 02:05 +1000
                Re: checking if a list is empty Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-11 18:56 +0100
                Re: checking if a list is empty harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-11 16:13 -0500
          RE: checking if a list is empty "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmchase.com> - 2011-05-11 13:39 -0400
        Re: checking if a list is empty Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-05-11 08:26 -0400
          Re: checking if a list is empty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-11 13:29 +0000
          Re: checking if a list is empty Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-12 17:44 +1200
            Re: checking if a list is empty Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-12 07:06 +0100
            Re: checking if a list is empty Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-05-12 07:36 -0400
              Re: checking if a list is empty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-13 00:16 +0000
                Re: checking if a list is empty rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-12 23:46 -0700
                Re: checking if a list is empty Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-05-13 01:02 -0700
                Re: checking if a list is empty rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-13 03:58 -0700
                Re: checking if a list is empty Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-14 14:34 +1200
                Re: checking if a list is empty David Robinow <drobinow@gmail.com> - 2011-05-14 10:28 -0400
                Re: checking if a list is empty Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-05-14 11:04 -0400
                Re: checking if a list is empty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-14 07:39 +0000
                Re: checking if a list is empty rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-14 00:45 -0700
                Re: checking if a list is empty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-14 23:42 +1000
                Re: checking if a list is empty rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-14 08:47 -0700
                Re: checking if a list is empty Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-15 01:55 +1000
                Re: checking if a list is empty rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-14 10:43 -0700
                Re: checking if a list is empty Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-14 17:29 -0400
                Re: checking if a list is empty Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-05-15 09:26 +1000
                Re: checking if a list is empty rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-14 19:41 -0700
                Re: checking if a list is empty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-15 05:07 +0000
                Re: checking if a list is empty rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-15 10:33 -0700
                Re: checking if a list is empty Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-15 17:36 -0400
                Re: checking if a list is empty rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-15 22:56 -0700
                Re: checking if a list is empty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-16 00:36 +0000
                Re: checking if a list is empty harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-15 20:59 -0500
                Re: checking if a list is empty rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-15 22:40 -0700
                Re: checking if a list is empty harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-15 20:25 -0500
                Re: checking if a list is empty Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-15 21:57 -0400
                Re: checking if a list is empty Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-14 16:59 -0400
                Re: checking if a list is empty Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-15 05:00 +0000
                Re: checking if a list is empty Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-14 16:53 -0400
          Re: checking if a list is empty Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-12 15:37 -0400
          Re: checking if a list is empty Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-12 18:00 -0400
  Re: checking if a list is empty Raymond Hettinger <python@rcn.com> - 2011-05-06 15:52 -0700

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