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Re: unicode by default

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On Thu, May 12, 2011 11:22 am, harrismh777 wrote:
> John Machin wrote:
>> (1) You cannot work without using bytes sequences. Files are byte
>> sequences. Web communication is in bytes. You need to (know / assume /
>> be
>> able to extract / guess) the input encoding. You need to encode your
>> output using an encoding that is expected by the consumer (or use an
>> output method that will do it for you).
>>
>> (2) You don't need to use bytes to specify a Unicode code point. Just
>> use
>> an escape sequence e.g. "\u0404" is a Cyrillic character.
>>
>
> Thanks John.  In reverse order, I understand point (2). I'm less clear
> on point (1).
>
> If I generate a string of characters that I presume to be ascii/utf-8
> (no \u0404 type characters)
> and write them to a file (stdout) how does
> default encoding affect that file.by default..?   I'm not seeing that
> there is anything unusual going on...

About """characters that I presume to be ascii/utf-8 (no \u0404 type
characters)""": All Unicode characters (including U+0404) are encodable in
bytes using UTF-8.

The result of sys.stdout.write(unicode_characters) to a TERMINAL depends
mostly on sys.stdout.encoding. This is likely to be UTF-8 on a
linux/OSX/platform. On a typical American / Western European /[former]
colonies Windows box, this is likely to be cp850 on a Command Prompt
window, and cp1252 in IDLE.

UTF-8: All Unicode characters are encodable in UTF-8. Only problem arises
if the terminal can't render the character -- you'll get spaces or blobs
or boxes with hex digits in them or nothing.

Windows (Command Prompt window): only a small subset of characters can be
encoded in e.g. cp850; anything else causes an exception.

Windows (IDLE): ignores sys.stdout.encoding and renders the characters
itself. Same outcome as *x/UTF-8 above.

If you write directly (or sys.stdout is redirected) to a FILE, the default
encoding is obtained by sys.getdefaultencoding() and is AFAIK ascii unless
the machine's site.py has been fiddled with to make it UTF-8 or something
else.

>   If I open the file with vi?  If
> I open the file with gedit?  emacs?

Any editor will have a default encoding; if that doesn't match the file
encoding, you have a (hopefully obvious) problem if the editor doesn't
detect the mismatch. Consult your editor's docs or HTFF1K.

> Another question... in mail I'm receiving many small blocks that look
> like sprites with four small hex codes, scattered about the mail...
> mostly punctuation, maybe?   ... guessing, are these unicode code
> points,

yes

> and if so what is the best way to 'guess' the encoding?

google("chardet") or rummage through the mail headers (but 4 hex digits in
a box are a symptom of inability to render, not necessarily caused by an
incorrect decoding)

 ... is
> it coded in the stream somewhere...protocol?

Should be.

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unicode by default harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-11 16:37 -0500
  Re: unicode by default Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-05-11 16:09 -0600
    Re: unicode by default harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-11 17:51 -0500
      Re: unicode by default "John Machin" <sjmachin@lexicon.net> - 2011-05-12 09:32 +1000
        Re: unicode by default harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-11 20:22 -0500
          Re: unicode by default MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2011-05-12 03:31 +0100
            Re: unicode by default Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-12 03:16 +0000
              Re: unicode by default harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-11 22:44 -0500
                Re: unicode by default Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-12 00:12 -0400
                Re: unicode by default harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-12 01:43 -0500
                Re: unicode by default "John Machin" <sjmachin@lexicon.net> - 2011-05-12 14:14 +1000
                Re: unicode by default Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2011-05-11 21:14 -0700
                Re: unicode by default "John Machin" <sjmachin@lexicon.net> - 2011-05-12 14:41 +1000
                Re: unicode by default harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-12 01:14 -0500
                Re: unicode by default TheSaint <nobody@nowhere.net.no> - 2011-05-12 20:40 +0800
            Re: unicode by default Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-05-12 14:07 +1000
              Re: unicode by default harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-12 01:31 -0500
                Re: unicode by default "John Machin" <sjmachin@lexicon.net> - 2011-05-12 17:58 +1000
                Re: unicode by default Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-05-12 10:17 -0600
                Re: unicode by default jmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> - 2011-05-12 23:28 -0700
                Re: unicode by default harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-13 14:53 -0500
                Re: unicode by default Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2011-05-13 15:18 -0500
                Re: unicode by default Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-13 21:41 -0400
                Re: unicode by default harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-14 02:41 -0500
                Re: unicode by default jmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> - 2011-05-14 03:26 -0700
                Re: unicode by default Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-14 16:26 -0400
                Re: unicode by default Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-05-15 09:47 +1000
                Re: unicode by default Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-05-14 09:34 +0100
                Re: unicode by default Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-12 16:42 -0400
                Re: unicode by default Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-05-12 16:25 -0600
          Re: unicode by default "John Machin" <sjmachin@lexicon.net> - 2011-05-12 13:54 +1000
  Re: unicode by default Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2011-05-11 15:34 -0700

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