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Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators

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Date Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:06:51 +1000
Subject Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators
From Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
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On Sat, Jul 12, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Alan Bawden
<alan@scooby-doo.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:
>
>> But perhaps we only care about changes in value, not type. NAN or no NAN,
>> list equality works fine:
>>
>> py> data = [1.0, 2.0, float('nan'), 4.0]
>> py> old = data[:]
>> py> old == data  # No changes made yet, should return True
>> True
>
> You lost me right here.  If list equality is determined by comparing
> lists element-by-element, and the second element of old is _not_ equal
> to the second element of data, then why should old and data be equal?
>
> In fact, I find myself puzzled about exactly how list equality is
> actually defined.

In the Python 3 docs, it's made a bit clearer, at least as regards the
'in' and 'not in' operators: it's an identity check followed by an
equality check - "x is y or x == y". The same comparison is done for
equality, although it's not strictly described there (at least, I
couldn't find it). There are a lot of these sorts of corner cases that
aren't made really clear in the docs, because the verbosity would be
more of a problem than the omission - I consider them to be like "The
land continues to burn" on Obsidian Fireheart [1] or the reminder text
on Madness [2]; if you go to the Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive
Rulebook, you can find the exact "code-accurate" details on how either
one works, but that takes several pages of verbiage, and it's much
better to just say "you may cast it for its madness cost instead of
putting it into your graveyard".

For the most part, the identity check is a pure optimization. Most
Python objects compare equal to themselves. It only VERY occasionally
matters (like when there's a NaN in your list), and for those cases,
you have the interactive interpreter to try things at.

ChrisA

[1] http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=192224
[2] eg http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=118892

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Thread

Proposal: === and !=== operators Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-09 07:00 +0000
  Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-09 17:21 +1000
    Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-09 09:17 +0000
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-07-09 09:20 -0700
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-09 11:50 -0600
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2014-07-10 09:16 +1000
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-07-12 13:54 +0200
        Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-12 16:35 +0000
          Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-13 02:54 +1000
            Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-07-12 16:39 -0400
          Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-07-12 20:14 +0200
            Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-13 09:01 +1000
              Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-07-12 19:06 -0400
                Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-13 09:15 +1000
            Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-13 04:48 +0000
  Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2014-07-09 18:17 +1000
    Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-09 09:02 +0000
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-09 19:23 +1000
  Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2014-07-09 05:01 -0700
  Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-07-09 08:27 -0400
    Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-09 12:48 +0000
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-07-09 13:05 -0500
        Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-10 01:10 +0000
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-09 12:31 -0600
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-07-09 16:47 -0400
  Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-07-09 05:43 -0700
  Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2014-07-09 16:27 +0100
  Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Alex Burke <alexjeffburke@gmail.com> - 2014-07-10 18:33 +0200
  Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-12 03:30 +0000
    Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Alan Bawden <alan@scooby-doo.csail.mit.edu> - 2014-07-12 01:07 -0400
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Torsten Bronger <bronger@physik.rwth-aachen.de> - 2014-07-12 08:05 +0200
        Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Torsten Bronger <bronger@physik.rwth-aachen.de> - 2014-07-12 08:14 +0200
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-12 16:06 +1000
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-07-11 23:11 -0700
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-12 16:39 +1000
        Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-12 10:06 +0300
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-07-11 23:53 -0700
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-12 17:25 +1000
      Re: Proposal: === and !=== operators Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-12 08:33 +0000

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