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Re: Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding)

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Date Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:20:50 -0500
From Evan Driscoll <driscoll@cs.wisc.edu>
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To Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject Re: Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding)
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On 01/-10/-28163 01:59 PM, Ross Ridge wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info>  wrote:
>> The right way to convert bytes to strings, and vice versa, is via
>> encoding and decoding operations.
>
> If you want to dictate to the original poster the correct way to do
> things then you don't need to do anything more that.  You don't need to
> pretend like Chris Angelico that there's isn't a direct mapping from
> the his Python 3 implementation's internal respresentation of strings
> to bytes in order to label what he's asking for as being "silly".

That mapping may as well be:

   def get_bytes(some_string):
       import random
       length = random.randint(len(some_string), 5*len(some_string))
       bytes = [0] * length
       for i in xrange(length):
           bytes[i] = random.randint(0, 255)
       return bytes

Of course this is hyperbole, but it's essentially about as much 
guarantee as to what the result is.

As many others have said, the encoding isn't defined, and I would guess 
varies between implementations. (E.g. if Jython and IronPython use their 
host platforms' native strings, both have 16-bit chars and thus probably 
use UTF-16 encoding. I am not sure what CPython uses, but I bet it's 
*not* that.)

It's even guaranteed that the byte representation won't change! If 
something is lazily evaluated or you have a COW string or something, the 
bytes backing it will differ.


So yes, you can say that pretending there's not a mapping of strings to 
internal representation is silly, because there is. However, there's 
nothing you can say about that mapping.

Evan

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Thread

"convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Peter Daum <gator@cs.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-03-28 10:56 +0200
  Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-03-28 20:02 +1100
    Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Peter Daum <gator@cs.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-03-28 11:43 +0200
      Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2012-03-28 12:42 +0200
        Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Peter Daum <gator@cs.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-03-28 19:43 +0200
          Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2012-03-28 20:13 +0200
          Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2012-03-28 21:13 +0300
            RE: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-03-28 18:31 +0000
            Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-03-28 11:49 -0700
          RE: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-03-28 18:20 +0000
          Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-03-28 12:20 -0600
          Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-03-28 18:26 +0000
            Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-28 19:40 +0000
          Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-03-28 11:17 -0700
          Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-03-28 12:30 -0700
          Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-03-28 17:37 -0400
            Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Peter Daum <gator@cs.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-03-29 16:57 +0200
            Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Peter Daum <gator@cs.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-03-29 16:57 +0200
          Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-03-30 22:06 +0300
          Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-03-31 06:10 +1100
      Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-03-28 13:25 +0200
      Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-03-28 18:12 +0000
    Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> - 2012-03-28 11:36 -0400
      Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-03-29 03:18 +1100
        Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-28 16:33 +0000
        Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> - 2012-03-28 14:05 -0400
          Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2012-03-28 13:49 -0500
            Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> - 2012-03-28 15:10 -0400
          Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) "Albert W. Hopkins" <marduk@letterboxes.org> - 2012-03-28 15:22 -0400
      Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-03-28 17:54 +0000
        Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> - 2012-03-28 14:22 -0400
          Re: Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Evan Driscoll <driscoll@cs.wisc.edu> - 2012-03-28 14:20 -0500
            Re: Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> - 2012-03-28 15:43 -0400
              Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-03-28 21:44 +0100
              Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2012-03-28 20:56 +0000
              Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-03-29 00:02 +0000
              Re: Re: Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Evan Driscoll <driscoll@cs.wisc.edu> - 2012-03-28 19:11 -0500
                Re: Re: Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> - 2012-03-28 23:04 -0400
                Re: Re: Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-03-29 14:31 +1100
                Re: Re: Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> - 2012-03-28 23:58 -0400
                Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-03-29 07:01 +0100
                Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-03-29 06:51 +0000
                Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> - 2012-03-29 11:30 -0400
                Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-03-29 12:49 -0400
                Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> - 2012-03-29 14:00 -0400
                Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-03-30 07:41 +1100
                Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-03-30 01:16 +0000
                Re: Re: Re: Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Evan Driscoll <driscoll@cs.wisc.edu> - 2012-03-29 11:31 -0500
          RE: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-03-28 19:02 +0000
            Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-28 19:44 +0000
          Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-03-28 20:50 +0100
          RE: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-03-29 17:36 +0000
            Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-03-30 01:10 +0000
              Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> - 2012-03-30 09:04 +0200
      Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-03-28 14:11 -0400
  Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-03-28 11:08 +0200
  Re: "convert" string to bytes without changing data (encoding) Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-03-28 13:16 -0400

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