Re: I hate you all

Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Date	2013-04-08 21:06 -0700
References	(6 earlier) <pan.2013.04.06.13.52.44.838000@nowhere.com> <mailman.200.1365258042.3114.python-list@python.org> <5160cc44$0$29995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <pan.2013.04.08.18.43.51.130000@nowhere.com> <51638229$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID	<e4f3a373-2e4f-4cfb-9b68-12f7aa03744f@ew1g2000pbc.googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: I hate you all
From	rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com>

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On Apr 9, 7:51 am, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 19:43:51 +0100, Nobody wrote:
> > On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:30:45 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> >> Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter?
>
> >> Tab stops were set manually, to a physical distance into the page,
> >> using a mechanical stop. This long predates the "rule" that tab stops
> >> are every 8 characters.
>
> > And your point is?
>
> > Typewriters don't have a tab "character". The information regarding tab
> > stops is conveyed out-of-band from the typist to the typewriter, and
> > doesn't need to persist beyond the time taken to type the document.
>
> Both text editors and typewriters encode information about tab settings
> out of band. Editors encode that information in some combination of
> program configuration, command-line switches, environment variables, and
> embedded mode lines in the document itself. Typewriters encode that
> information in the typists' memory, or failing that, in the actual
> physical space left on the page. That's a difference that makes no
> difference.
>
> My point is that there were well-established semantics for what a tab
> should do, and the "8 character tab" is not that. Pressing the tab key on
> a keyboard while entering text ought to instruct the editor to advance to
> a specified tab stop capable of being set anywhere on the page. Word
> processors use that model: the word processor stores the positions of the
> tab stops out of band, usually in the "paragraph formatting" or "style
> sheet", but in principle they could keep the position of the tab stops
> global to the document or even global to the application.

Dunno what you mean by 'out-of-band'
If I set tabstops for a para to say 4-13-25-36 in a wordprocessor,
save the file and look inside, I will find the tuple (4,13,25,36) in
some encoded form.
For a typewritten page, if the margin seems to be at 11th col, the
reader cannot know from the page alone whether the typist
1. set the tab at 11
2. set the tab at 8 and pressed TAB followed by 3 SPC
3. Started with 2 and switched to 1

Thread

I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 14:41 -0700
  Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 08:53 +1100
  Re: I hate you all John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2013-04-05 21:55 +0000
    Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 15:04 -0700
      Re: I hate you all Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 17:28 -0500
      Re: I hate you all Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 16:42 -0600
        Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 17:22 -0700
          Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 11:35 +1100
            Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 08:07 +0300
              Re: I hate you all Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2013-04-05 22:28 -0700
              Re: I hate you all Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 23:53 -0600
                Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 09:56 +0300
                Re: I hate you all Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 11:17 +0100
                Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 17:22 +0300
                Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-06 15:30 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Roland Koebler <r.koebler@yahoo.de> - 2013-04-08 00:52 +0200
              Re: I hate you all Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 23:59 -0600
                Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-06 06:19 +0000
              Re: I hate you all Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 23:49 -0600
          Re: I hate you all Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 19:50 -0500
          Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-06 02:07 +0000
          Re: I hate you all Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 21:53 -0600
            Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 08:36 +0300
              Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 16:44 +1100
              Re: I hate you all Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 23:58 -0600
                Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 10:07 +0300
              Re: I hate you all Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-04-05 23:00 -0700
                Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-06 15:37 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 11:49 -0400
              Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-06 06:55 +0000
              Re: I hate you all Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2013-04-06 13:17 -0700
                Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 14:37 +0300
            Re: I hate you all Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-04-06 14:52 +0100
              Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 01:20 +1100
                Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 17:37 +0300
                Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 11:01 -0400
                Re: I hate you all Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-04-06 15:15 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-06 15:41 +0000
                Re: I hate you all rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 09:00 -0700
                Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 11:59 -0400
                Re: I hate you all Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-04-06 18:48 +0000
                Re: I hate you all rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 08:31 -0700
                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 07:29 +1000
                Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-07 01:38 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-07 01:30 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 22:15 -0400
                Re: I hate you all Jason Friedman <jsf80238@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 20:42 -0600
                Re: I hate you all Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-04-08 19:43 +0100
                Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-08 19:48 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-04-08 21:25 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-08 21:29 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 08:00 +1000
                Re: I hate you all Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-04-08 22:51 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 08:57 +1000
                Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-09 09:33 +0100
                Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-09 13:39 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-04-09 09:17 -0500
                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-10 00:20 +1000
                Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-09 16:51 +0100
                Re: I hate you all Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-04-09 21:09 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-09 23:09 +0100
                Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 23:21 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-10 09:28 +1000
                Re: I hate you all Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-04-09 23:50 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-10 10:31 +1000
                Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-10 02:00 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-10 12:14 +1000
                Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-10 00:39 +0100
                Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-10 00:41 +0100
                Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-09 21:43 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 02:51 +0000
                Re: I hate you all rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 21:06 -0700
                Re: I hate you all rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 21:52 -0700
                Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 05:19 +0000
          Re: I hate you all "Günther Dietrich" <gd.usenet@spamfence.net> - 2013-04-06 14:55 +0200
        Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 17:22 -0700
      Re: I hate you all Isaac To <isaac.to@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 06:35 +0800
      Re: I hate you all Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 17:00 -0600
  Re: I hate you all Dylan Evans <dylan@dje.me> - 2013-04-06 14:28 +1000
    Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 22:13 -0700
      Re: I hate you all Dylan Evans <dylan@dje.me> - 2013-04-07 13:00 +1000
        Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 14:44 +0300
          Re: I hate you all Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-04-07 11:12 -0700
            Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-07 14:33 -0400
    Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 22:13 -0700
  Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-06 15:27 +0000
    Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 11:58 -0400
  Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-07 19:25 +0100

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