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Groups > comp.lang.python > #51401
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-28 12:23 -0700 |
| References | (10 earlier) <mailman.5127.1374808181.3114.python-list@python.org> <8203e802-9dc5-44c5-9547-6e1947ee224b@googlegroups.com> <mailman.5160.1374890711.3114.python-list@python.org> <f4bb2528-930e-4c0a-820e-66f00ac2b5b6@googlegroups.com> <mailman.5191.1375026785.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| Message-ID | <c5eed93b-bfa1-44fe-9a8f-67a7d9380b20@googlegroups.com> (permalink) |
| Subject | Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance |
| From | wxjmfauth@gmail.com |
Le dimanche 28 juillet 2013 17:52:47 UTC+2, Michael Torrie a écrit :
> On 07/27/2013 12:21 PM, wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Good point. FSR, nice tool for those who wish to teach
>
> > Unicode. It is not every day, one has such an opportunity.
>
>
>
> I had a long e-mail composed, but decided to chop it down, but still too
>
> long. so I ditched a lot of the context, which jmf also seems to do.
>
> Apologies.
>
>
>
> 1. FSR *is* UTF-32 so it is as unicode compliant as UTF-32, since UTF-32
>
> is an official encoding. FSR only differs from UTF-32 in that the
>
> padding zeros are stripped off such that it is stored in the most
>
> compact form that can handle all the characters in string, which is
>
> always known at string creation time. Now you can argue many things,
>
> but to say FSR is not unicode compliant is quite a stretch! What
>
> unicode entities or characters cannot be stored in strings using FSR?
>
> What sequences of bytes in FSR result in invalid Unicode entities?
>
>
>
> 2. strings in Python *never change*. They are immutable. The +
>
> operator always copies strings character by character into a new string
>
> object, even if Python had used UTF-8 internally. If you're doing a lot
>
> of string concatenations, perhaps you're using the wrong data type. A
>
> byte buffer might be better for you, where you can stuff utf-8 sequences
>
> into it to your heart's content.
>
>
>
> 3. UTF-8 and UTF-16 encodings, being variable width encodings, mean that
>
> slicing a string would be very very slow, and that's unacceptable for
>
> the use cases of python strings. I'm assuming you understand big O
>
> notation, as you talk of experience in many languages over the years.
>
> FSR and UTF-32 both are O(1) for slicing and lookups. UTF-8, 16 and any
>
> variable-width encoding are always O(n). A lot slower!
>
>
>
> 4. Unicode is, well, unicode. You seem to hop all over the place from
>
> talking about code points to bytes to bits, using them all
>
> interchangeably. And now you seem to be claiming that a particular byte
>
> encoding standard is by definition unicode (UTF-8). Or at least that's
>
> how it sounds. And also claim FSR is not compliant with unicode
>
> standards, which appears to me to be completely false.
>
>
>
> Is my understanding of these things wrong?
------
Compare these (a BDFL exemple, where I'using a non-ascii char)
Py 3.2 (narrow build)
>>> timeit.timeit("a = 'hundred'; 'x' in a")
0.09897159682121348
>>> timeit.timeit("a = 'hundre€'; 'x' in a")
0.09079501961732461
>>> sys.getsizeof('d')
32
>>> sys.getsizeof('€')
32
>>> sys.getsizeof('dd')
34
>>> sys.getsizeof('d€')
34
Py3.3
>>> timeit.timeit("a = 'hundred'; 'x' in a")
0.12183182740848858
>>> timeit.timeit("a = 'hundre€'; 'x' in a")
0.2365732969632326
>>> sys.getsizeof('d')
26
>>> sys.getsizeof('€')
40
>>> sys.getsizeof('dd')
27
>>> sys.getsizeof('d€')
42
Tell me which one seems to be more "unicode compliant"?
The goal of Unicode is to handle every char "equaly".
Now, the problem: memory. Do not forget that à la "FSR"
mechanism for a non-ascii user is *irrelevant*. As
soon as one uses one single non-ascii, your ascii feature
is lost. (That why we have all these dedicated coding
schemes, utfs included).
>>> sys.getsizeof('abc' * 1000 + 'z')
3026
>>> sys.getsizeof('abc' * 1000 + '\U00010010')
12044
A bit secret. The larger a repertoire of characters
is, the more bits you needs.
Secret #2. You can not escape from this.
jmf
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Re: RE Module Performance wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-07-26 08:46 -0700
Re: RE Module Performance Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-27 06:28 +0000
Re: RE Module Performance Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-27 03:37 +0000
Re: RE Module Performance Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-07-26 22:12 -0600
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Re: RE Module Performance Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-27 12:13 -0400
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Re: RE Module Performance wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-07-26 06:21 -0700
Re: RE Module Performance Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-26 20:05 -0600
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Re: RE Module Performance Lele Gaifax <lele@metapensiero.it> - 2013-07-28 22:45 +0200
Re: RE Module Performance Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-28 22:01 +0200
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Re: RE Module Performance Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-30 16:38 +0200
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Re: RE Module Performance MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-07-30 18:14 +0100
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Re: RE Module Performance Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2013-07-30 18:40 +0100
Re: RE Module Performance Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-30 20:19 +0200
Re: RE Module Performance wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-07-30 12:09 -0700
Re: RE Module Performance Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-30 21:04 +0100
Re: RE Module Performance Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-30 21:54 -0600
Re: RE Module Performance Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-31 05:45 +0000
Re: RE Module Performance Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-31 08:17 +0100
Re: RE Module Performance wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-07-31 13:15 -0700
Re: RE Module Performance Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-31 21:41 +0100
Re: RE Module Performance Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-31 10:11 +0200
Re: RE Module Performance wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-07-31 01:32 -0700
Re: RE Module Performance Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-31 10:59 +0200
Re: RE Module Performance Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-31 08:44 -0600
Re: RE Module Performance Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-07-30 17:05 -0400
Re: RE Module Performance Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-30 21:30 -0600
Re: RE Module Performance Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-31 09:23 +0200
Re: RE Module Performance Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-31 08:27 -0600
Re: RE Module Performance Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-28 10:45 +0200
FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-28 09:52 -0600
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-07-28 12:23 -0700
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-07-28 20:44 +0100
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-28 21:55 +0200
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-28 20:52 +0000
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-07-29 04:43 -0700
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-29 12:57 +0100
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-07-29 05:56 -0700
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-07-29 07:20 -0700
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-29 15:49 +0100
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-07-29 09:31 -0700
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-07-29 14:06 +0200
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance Devyn Collier Johnson <devyncjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-07-29 08:43 -0400
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-28 18:03 +0100
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-07-28 13:36 -0400
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-07-29 06:36 -0700
Re: FSR and unicode compliance - was Re: RE Module Performance Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-28 19:03 +0100
Re: RE Module Performance Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2013-07-28 19:19 +0100
Re: RE Module Performance Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-28 19:29 +0100
Re: RE Module Performance Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-07-28 15:06 -0400
Re: RE Module Performance Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2013-07-28 23:14 +0100
Re: RE Module Performance Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-28 20:51 +0200
Re: RE Module Performance Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-29 00:07 +0100
Re: RE Module Performance Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-26 22:38 +0200
Re: RE Module Performance Devyn Collier Johnson <devyncjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-07-25 09:44 -0400
Re: RE Module Performance Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-07-25 15:53 -0500
Re: RE Module Performance MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-07-13 00:16 +0100
Re: RE Module Performance Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-07-14 05:34 +1000
Re: RE Module Performance Devyn Collier Johnson <devyncjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-07-16 06:30 -0400
Re: RE Module Performance 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 13:17 -0700
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