Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come!

From	Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Subject	Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come!
Date	2011-07-06 19:05 +1200
Message-ID	<97ifp6FjfuU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <6dd92755-c8e9-47ef-aa08-ffffbc3d1893@5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <97a7q6FtqcU1@mid.individual.net> <6a9373cd-4b27-447a-8be4-db74effde338@g16g2000yqg.googlegroups.com> <97d8spFg2nU1@mid.individual.net> <22a13bda-899d-4765-a03c-f8a36efaf905@34g2000yqr.googlegroups.com>

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rantingrick wrote:

> I was thinking more about this comment and it occurred to me that
> Python does have user controlled data structures. Just because there
> is no "top level syntax" like ruby does not mean these do not exists.

Syntax is what it's really about, though. There's no clear
dividing line, but when Guido says he's opposed to "user
defined syntax" he's talking about things like Lisp macros,
which let you effectively extend the grammar with new
keywords and syntactic structures.

Compared to that, Python's grammar is very much fixed.
Anything you want to do has to be done within the existing
framework of function calls, attribute references etc.

If Python truly had user-defined syntax, it wouldn't have
been necessary to modify the compiler to implement features
such as list comprehensions and with-statements -- those
features could have been implemented, with the *same
syntax* or something close to it, in the base language.

-- 
Greg

Thread

The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 15:59 -0700
  Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 09:38 +1000
    Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 16:46 -0700
      Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-07-02 20:09 -0500
    Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 17:21 -0700
      Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 10:36 +1000
        Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-03 16:06 +1200
      Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 17:58 -0700
        Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 11:12 +1000
          Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 18:43 -0700
            Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 11:49 +1000
              Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 19:24 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 13:14 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 21:13 -0700
            Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 19:08 -0700
              Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-03 15:57 +1200
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 21:34 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-03 14:46 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-07-03 02:59 -0700
            Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-03 16:00 +1200
              Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 21:42 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 22:06 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 09:35 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 03:19 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-05 09:24 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-07-04 19:09 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 18:07 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 12:31 +1000
                Microsoft GUIs (was: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come!) (OT) Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 23:13 -0500
                Re: Microsoft GUIs (was: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come!) (OT) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 14:25 +1000
                Re: Microsoft GUIs Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 23:53 -0500
                Re: Microsoft GUIs Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 00:29 -0500
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-07-05 22:26 -0700
                Re: Microsoft GUIs Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 15:43 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 15:47 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-06 19:15 +1200
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-06 21:46 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-07-06 09:55 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 19:31 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! sal migondis <salmig99@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 11:14 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 16:01 -0500
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 08:36 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-07-05 22:26 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-07-07 15:10 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 00:37 -0500
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-06 21:45 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! sal migondis <salmig99@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 12:05 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 13:21 -0600
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 19:36 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-04 19:36 +1200
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 04:42 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Corey Richardson <kb1pkl@aim.com> - 2011-07-05 12:04 -0400
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 15:35 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 08:49 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-07-05 18:21 -0500
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-06 21:44 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 06:41 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 23:52 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-07-06 15:13 +0000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-07 00:55 +1000
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 08:33 -0700
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2011-07-06 19:55 +0300
                Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-07-06 19:05 +1200
  Re: The end to all language wars and the great unity API to come! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-03 13:21 +1000

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