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Re: 'is not' or '!='

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Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com>:

> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
>> For a more worthy attempt, we'll have to take a look at Scheme (<URL:
>> http://www.scheme.com/tspl2d/objects.html>):
>
> Those are invariants, not a definition.  The actual definition is
> found in the paragraph above:
>
> "In most Scheme systems, two objects are considered identical if they
> are represented internally by the same pointer value and distinct (not
> identical) if they are represented internally by different pointer
> values, although other criteria, such as time-stamping, are possible."
>
> In other words, object identity in Scheme is also established by an
> integer that may or may not correspond to a memory address. How is
> this any different from Python's definition?

"In most Scheme systems" is similar to the CPython sidenote. The
"invariants" might not form a complete axiom system but are a step in
that direction.

When Peano Arithmetic posits (<URL:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peano_axioms#Addition>):
   
   a + 0 = a
   a + b' = (a + b)'

we usually take that to be the definition of addition in the system.

The true Scheme standard appeals to the "invariants" (<URL:
http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.ht
ml#%_sec_6.1>):

    The eqv? procedure defines a useful equivalence relation on objects.
    Briefly, it returns #t if obj1 and obj2 should normally be regarded
    as the same object. This relation is left slightly open to
    interpretation, but the following partial specification of eqv?
    holds for all implementations of Scheme.

    The eqv? procedure returns #t if:

       obj1 and obj2 are both #t or both #f.

       obj1 and obj2 are both symbols and

       (string=? (symbol->string obj1)
                 (symbol->string obj2))
                   ===>  #t

    [...]


Marko

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'is not' or '!=' "ElChino" <elchino@cnn.cn> - 2014-08-18 22:35 +0200
  Re: 'is not' or '!=' MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-08-18 21:53 +0100
  Re: 'is not' or '!=' Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-18 23:53 +0300
    Re: 'is not' or '!=' "ElChino" <elchino@cnn.cn> - 2014-08-18 22:58 +0200
      Re: 'is not' or '!=' Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-08-18 14:42 -0700
      Re: 'is not' or '!=' Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-08-18 15:19 -0700
      Re: 'is not' or '!=' Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2014-08-18 15:04 -0700
        Re: 'is not' or '!=' Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2014-08-19 11:49 +0200
      Re: 'is not' or '!=' Martin S <shieldfire@gmail.com> - 2014-08-19 14:42 +0200
      Re: 'is not' or '!=' Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2014-08-19 08:12 -0500
        Re: 'is not' or '!=' Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-19 20:29 +0300
          Re: 'is not' or '!=' Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-08-19 12:34 -0500
            Re: 'is not' or '!=' Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-19 21:18 +0300
          Re: 'is not' or '!=' Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-20 04:26 +1000
            Re: 'is not' or '!=' Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-19 21:52 +0300
              Re: 'is not' or '!=' Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-20 00:00 +0300
                Re: 'is not' or '!=' Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-08-19 16:21 -0600
                Re: 'is not' or '!=' Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-20 02:02 +0300
                Re: 'is not' or '!=' Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 22:03 -0700
                Re: 'is not' or '!=' Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-21 08:56 +0300
            Re: 'is not' or '!=' Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-19 20:05 +0100
            Re: 'is not' or '!=' Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-19 18:23 -0400
      Re: 'is not' or '!=' Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-08-19 10:42 -0600
        Re: 'is not' or '!=' Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-19 20:36 +0300
      Re: 'is not' or '!=' Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2014-08-19 13:44 -0500
    Re: 'is not' or '!=' alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-08-19 09:35 +0000
    Re: 'is not' or '!=' Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2014-08-19 11:53 +0200
  Re: 'is not' or '!=' Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-18 19:29 -0700
    Re: 'is not' or '!=' Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-19 08:36 +0000
      Re: 'is not' or '!=' Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-19 18:47 +1000
      Re: 'is not' or '!=' Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-08-19 05:36 -0500
      Re: 'is not' or '!=' Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-20 09:24 +1000
        Re: 'is not' or '!=' Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-19 21:01 -0700
          Re: 'is not' or '!=' Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-20 04:59 +0000
            Re: 'is not' or '!=' Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-19 22:25 -0700
              Re: 'is not' or '!=' Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-20 21:05 +1000
                Re: 'is not' or '!=' Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 21:17 +1000
                Re: 'is not' or '!=' Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2014-08-21 20:31 +0200
                Re: 'is not' or '!=' Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-08-20 06:26 -0500
                Re: 'is not' or '!=' Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 21:33 +1000
                Re: 'is not' or '!=' Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 12:40 +0100
                Re: 'is not' or '!=' Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 05:01 -0700
  Re: 'is not' or '!=' Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 12:24 -0700
    Re: 'is not' or '!=' "ElChino" <elchino@cnn.cn> - 2014-08-21 21:42 +0200

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