Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Subject	Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations
References	<501cbdf8$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mailman.2924.1344062061.4697.python-list@python.org> <501cff63$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mailman.2930.1344079082.4697.python-list@python.org>
Date	2012-08-04 08:59 -0700
Message-ID	<7x1ujmabs9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> (permalink)
Organization	Nightsong/Fort GNOX

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Stefan Krah <stefan-usenet@bytereef.org> writes:
> In the free software world, apparently many people like C. C is also
> quite popular in the zero-fault software world: Several verification
> tools do exist and Leroy et al. are writing a certified compiler for
> C to plug the hole between the verified source code and the generated
> assembly.

C is pretty poor as a compiler target: how would you translate Python
generators into C, for example?  How would you handle garbage
collection?

C isn't so great for high-assurance stuff either, compared to (say) Ada.
People do use it in critical apps, but that's just because it is (or
anyway used to be) so ubiquitous.  I'm wondering what you mean about
verification tools, other than analyzers like Coverity that mainly check
for bugs that in a safer language would be caught by the compiler.
Compcert is not all that C-specific it has been adapted to compile a
Haskell-derived language (Habit).

Haskell doesn't sound all that great as a translation target for Python
either, unfortunately, because its execution semantics are so different.
GHC is a very powerful compiler but it was made to compile Haskell code
that people actually write, and may do less good of a job with compiler
output from an imperative language like Python.  Compiling Python to
Scheme and then using a Scheme compiler might be a more natural fit.
But, compiling to Haskell was probably pretty convenient for that
particular project.

Finally, Python itself isn't all that well suited for compilation, given
its high dynamicity.  It will be interesting to see if the language
evolves due to PyPy.

Thread

On-topic: alternate Python implementations Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-04 06:15 +0000
  Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-04 16:34 +1000
    Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-04 10:54 +0000
      Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Krah <stefan-usenet@bytereef.org> - 2012-08-04 13:18 +0200
        Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-04 08:59 -0700
          Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-04 18:55 +0200
            Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-04 11:18 -0700
              Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-04 21:06 +0200
                Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-04 13:43 -0700
                Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-04 23:24 +0200
              Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-08-04 20:24 +0100
          Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-05 00:54 +0000
            Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-04 18:38 -0700
              Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-05 02:19 +0000
                Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2012-08-06 22:57 -0700
              Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-05 07:37 +0200
            Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-04 23:09 -0400
      Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-04 13:32 +0200
  Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-04 08:40 +0200
    Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-04 07:49 +0000
      Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-04 11:10 +0200
        Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2012-08-04 14:51 +0200
          Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-04 15:53 +0200
            Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt@dominolaser.com> - 2012-08-08 10:29 +0200
          Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-04 16:03 +0200
      Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-04 11:05 +0100
      Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-04 12:59 +0200
      Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-04 19:24 +0100
        Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Temia Eszteri <lamialily@cleverpun.com> - 2012-08-04 11:34 -0700
        Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-08-06 01:21 +1000
      Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-04 14:42 -0400
      Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-04 14:56 -0400
      Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-08-05 07:27 -0700
  Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2012-08-04 13:07 -0700
  Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations jwp <james.pye@gmail.com> - 2012-08-04 15:05 -0700
  Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Jürgen A. Erhard <jae+python@jaerhard.com> - 2012-08-05 01:25 +0200
  Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-05 07:46 +0200
  Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-05 09:51 +0200
  Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Jürgen A. Erhard <jae+python@jaerhard.com> - 2012-08-05 14:28 +0200
  Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 20:40 -0700
    Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-06 08:21 +0200
  Re: On-topic: alternate Python implementations Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-06 08:46 +0200
  Alternate Python extensions (was alternate Python implementations) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-08-06 21:23 -0700
    Re: Alternate Python extensions (was alternate Python implementations) Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-07 07:09 +0200

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