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Re: from future import pass_function

From rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Subject Re: from future import pass_function
Date 2012-07-26 08:01 -0700
Organization http://groups.google.com
Message-ID <68e1df81-19d1-4a36-b447-e01d59dc4c8f@lq16g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> (permalink)
References <d1o4e9-tlr.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

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On Jul 25, 1:40 pm, Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckha...@dominolaser.com>
wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I just had an idea, it occurred to me that the pass statement is pretty
> similar to the print statement, and similarly to the print() function,
> there could be a pass() function that does and returns nothing.
>
> Example:
>     def pass():
>         return

Since many have said NO but I see no good reasons for this no yet,
here's mine:

tl;dr version: Do-nothing statements are easy just do nothing, ie
pass.
Do-nothing expressions are hard. In the fully generic context they are
impossible to implement.

Longer version:

Consider the if expression and the if statement. The if statement can
have its else part elided in which case it defaults to pass.  The if
expression cannot so elide. Why?

Consider the expression: (exp if cond)  # no else
Now in "x + (exp if cond)" if cond is false it should presumably be 0
However in "x * (exp if cond)" it should presumably be 1?
And in the first case if x were a list should it not be [] ?

Now consider your suggestion:
def pass(): return
is identical to
def pass(): return None

So you are saying that None can serve as a "generic zero"?
Of course as you know (no suggestion that you are a noob on my part!!)

Python 2.7.3rc2 (default, Apr 22 2012, 22:35:38)
[GCC 4.6.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 0+3
3
>>> None+3
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'int'
>>> None+[1,2,3]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'list'
>>>

So now you (may) retort but these have nothing to do with what you
asked.

You see what youve asked for is moving pass from the statement world
to the expression world.
The meaning of a do-nothing statement is easy to give.  The meaning of
a do-nothing expression is hard because we are obliged to specify a
type for expressions and the only value that can possibly belong to
all types is the error-value (what denotational semantics calls bottom
⊥ )

A more laymanish example:
I have a multiplication
I want one of the operands to be a 1, ie the identity
I substitute it with the nearest available value ie 0

And out goes the baby with the bathwater!

So to come back to your proposal:

> there could be a pass() function that does and returns nothing.

does nothing: easy
returns nothing: impossible (None is not "nothing", its more like
"error")

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Thread

from future import pass_function Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt@dominolaser.com> - 2012-07-25 10:40 +0200
  Re: from future import pass_function Philipp Hagemeister <phihag@phihag.de> - 2012-07-25 12:30 +0200
  Re: from future import pass_function Nicholas Cole <nicholas.cole@gmail.com> - 2012-07-25 11:33 +0100
  Re: from future import pass_function Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-07-25 07:02 -0400
  Re: from future import pass_function Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-25 11:33 +0000
    Re: from future import pass_function Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> - 2012-07-25 21:42 -0400
      Re: from future import pass_function Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-26 02:38 +0000
        Re: from future import pass_function Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> - 2012-07-25 23:30 -0400
          Re: from future import pass_function Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-26 13:53 +1000
            Re: from future import pass_function Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> - 2012-07-26 00:03 -0400
              Re: from future import pass_function Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-07-25 21:32 -0700
                Re: from future import pass_function John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-07-26 13:55 -0700
                Re: from future import pass_function Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-07-26 14:23 -0700
                Re: from future import pass_function John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-07-26 15:20 -0700
                Re: from future import pass_function John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-07-26 15:20 -0700
                Re: from future import pass_function John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-07-26 13:55 -0700
              Re: from future import pass_function Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-26 08:43 +0100
          Re: from future import pass_function alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-07-25 21:20 -0700
        Re: from future import pass_function Rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-07-25 22:09 -0700
        Re: from future import pass_function Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt@dominolaser.com> - 2012-07-26 08:59 +0200
          Re: from future import pass_function Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-26 09:26 +0000
            Re: from future import pass_function Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt@dominolaser.com> - 2012-07-26 13:45 +0200
              Re: from future import pass_function Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-26 15:21 +0000
                Re: from future import pass_function Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2012-07-26 12:55 -0400
                RE: from future import pass_function "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-07-26 17:19 +0000
                Re: from future import pass_function Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-27 03:33 +1000
                Re: from future import pass_function Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-27 00:25 +0100
                Re: from future import pass_function Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-27 00:23 +0100
      Re: from future import pass_function alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-07-25 21:17 -0700
  Re: from future import pass_function Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-26 02:05 +1000
    Re: from future import pass_function Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt@dominolaser.com> - 2012-07-26 08:39 +0200
      Re: from future import pass_function Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-26 08:36 +0000
      Re: from future import pass_function Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-07-26 10:38 -0400
  Re: from future import pass_function Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-07-25 09:28 -0700
  Re: from future import pass_function Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-07-25 12:48 -0400
  Re: from future import pass_function Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-07-25 14:17 -0400
  Re: from future import pass_function Michael Hrivnak <mhrivnak@hrivnak.org> - 2012-07-26 01:20 -0400
    Re: from future import pass_function Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt@dominolaser.com> - 2012-07-26 08:42 +0200
      Re: from future import pass_function Michael Hrivnak <mhrivnak@hrivnak.org> - 2012-07-26 17:15 -0400
  Re: from future import pass_function Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-26 08:50 +0100
    Re: from future import pass_function Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt@dominolaser.com> - 2012-07-27 08:39 +0200
  Re: from future import pass_function Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-07-26 05:16 -0400
  Re: from future import pass_function Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-26 19:42 +1000
  Re: from future import pass_function Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-07-26 06:00 -0400
  Re: from future import pass_function rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-07-26 08:01 -0700
  Re: from future import pass_function Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-07-26 14:01 -0400
  Re: from future import pass_function Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-27 04:14 +1000
  Re: from future import pass_function John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-07-26 13:48 -0700
    Re: from future import pass_function Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-07-26 15:18 -0600
    Re: from future import pass_function Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-07-26 15:35 -0700
    Re: from future import pass_function Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-07-27 00:21 -0400
  Re: from future import pass_function Michael Hrivnak <mhrivnak@hrivnak.org> - 2012-07-26 17:20 -0400

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