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Re: Build tools, and Python 3 dependencies (was: How keep Python 3 moving forward)

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On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 8:29:13 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 26 May 2014 08:44:51 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >> That makes even less sense. The build system runs under whatever
> 
> >> version of Python it needs, and your code runs under whatever version
> 
> >> of Python you like. The two don't affect each other at run time, and
> 
> >> don't affect each other's testing dependencies.
> 
> > 
> 
> > The are tightly integrated, and share code.
> 
> 
> 
> Well there's your problem, right there. Tight coupling is a *bad* thing, 
> 
> you're supposed to minimize it, not maximize it :-)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having trouble understanding why your build system should be 
> integrated with your production code. You should, in principle, be able 
> to replace your build system with one written in Perl or bash without 
> having to touch a single line of your application. If what you say is 

In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. s/theory/principle

[Whether thats Einsten or Yogi Berra I am not sure. I guess they
are the same in principle :D ]

Somewhat more seriously, I see this as a problem with all the super-kewl languages.  I know it most closely with python and haskell but I think its true across the board. It goes something like this:
- Language L is super-kewl
- Its so kewl it spawns its own ecosystem
- The ecosystem grows
- World domination is almost in sight -- everything to be done with
language L
- Unfortunately super-kewl ≠ omnipotent
- Things start crumbling at the edges

Case(s) in point: debian's apt is a mishmash of perl,shell etc
However it is more powerful than python's pip or Haskell's cabal.

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How keep Python 3 moving forward Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-23 21:16 +0100
  Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-23 19:57 -0400
    Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-23 17:27 -0700
      Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-23 21:12 -0400
    Python 3 support for Fabric (was: How keep Python 3 moving forward) Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-24 14:29 +1000
    Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward - suds & Python 3 Jurko Gospodnetić <jurko.gospodnetic@pke.hr> - 2014-05-25 10:54 +0200
    Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2014-05-25 11:25 +0200
      Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-25 14:03 -0400
        Build tools, and Python 3 dependencies (was: How keep Python 3 moving forward) Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-26 13:16 +1000
          Re: Build tools, and Python 3 dependencies (was: How keep Python 3 moving forward) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-26 08:44 -0400
            Re: Build tools, and Python 3 dependencies (was: How keep Python 3 moving forward) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-27 02:59 +0000
              Re: Build tools, and Python 3 dependencies (was: How keep Python 3 moving forward) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 20:54 -0700
            Re: Build tools, and Python 3 dependencies (was: How keep Python 3 moving forward) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-27 03:06 +0000
  Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-24 00:13 -0700
    Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward blindanagram <noone@nowhere.net> - 2014-05-24 15:35 +0100
      Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-24 12:59 +0300
        Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 03:40 -0700
        Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 09:03 -0700
          Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-24 22:49 +0300
            Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-24 21:11 +0100
            Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-24 20:27 -0400
              Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-24 23:43 -0700
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-25 08:21 -0700
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 10:38 -0700
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-25 18:17 +0000
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-05-25 13:56 -0500
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-25 13:18 -0700
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-25 11:34 -0700
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-25 21:24 +0100
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-25 18:22 -0400
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-26 00:09 +0100
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-26 07:03 -0700
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 10:24 +1000
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-25 17:32 -0700
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 01:52 +1000
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-25 17:32 +0100
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-25 18:20 -0400
                Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-25 21:32 -0400
        Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-05-24 12:08 -0700
        Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2014-05-24 21:44 +0200
      Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Travis Griggs <travisgriggs@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 11:02 -0700
      Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-05-25 20:45 -0400
    Re: How keep Python 3 moving forward Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-05-24 14:06 +0000

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