Re: issues with POD

From	Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.perl.misc
Subject	Re: issues with POD
Date	2013-06-28 14:29 +0100
Message-ID	<87mwqa8isy.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com> (permalink)
References	<87y5a8es4l.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <8761wz90sq.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <5ost9a-4fc2.ln1@anubis.morrow.me.uk> <87obar7ezk.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <pvmu9a-t9f2.ln1@anubis.morrow.me.uk>

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Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
> Quoth Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com>:
>> >>>>> Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
>> >>>>> Quoth Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com>:
>> 
>>  >> "Command-line perldoc"?  What's it?
>> 
>>  > Are you serious?  Run 'perldoc Pod::Man' from your shell prompt.
>> 
>> $ perldoc Pod::Man 
>> You need to install the perl-doc package to use this program.
>
> Your perl install is broken; it has been mangled by over-zealous
> packagers looking to save a few bytes. You need to find which magic
> package to install to give you the whole thing.

"Please note that whatever precisely constitutes 'the whole thing'
might be subject to change with little or no advance warning based on
what 'certain developers' presently do or don't consider fashionable",
possibly based on outright irrational reasons (or intentionally
disingenious mock arguments. It is not always possible to distinguish
which is which) such as

	I find no small irony in a few posts asking whether there's
	any reason to use Moose or Mouse or Moo when you can write
	your own object accessors by hand (I wrote my own templating
	system by hand too. No more.)

Side remark: I should be noted that the suspicion that what was
supposed to be the be-all and end-all of YARFPOO has already again
'logically' splintered into three different semi-compatible
implementations with mutually exclusive design goals is correct. More
to follow as time goes by and old non-solutions to non-problem are
abandoned because their non-maintainers get bored with them and people
discover more aspects in which all of the existing YARFPOOs are deficient
in this or that way and hence, set forth to - once and for all this
time! - nail the jello to the tree in the perfect way 'from scratch'
all over again. Structual similarities to daily soap opera
installments are unintentional but very like not accidental.

I wonder if somebody ever really asked a so thoroughly stupid question
when considering the scope of the moose mouse that mooed versus
'writing accessors'. This looks suspiciously like strawman. 'writing
accessors' is not a particularly sensible activity in its own right:
Objects should provide behaviour and not hierarchically structured
storage. If a particular 'behaviour' can sensibly be abstracted away
from a specific way of handling state information, it shouldn't be
tied to one: The implementation should be capable of working with all
kinds of objects providing a compatible interface and not be part of
any of them. Comparing 'writing accessors' to 'writing a template
system' is again totally bogus: The tasks are of vastly differing
technical complexity.

As a rule of thumb, people resort to sophisms when marketing their
opinions when they can't think of any better way to further their
causes. This may be because they themselves know that they are wrong
or - considering that 'web development' is what the guy who runs the
advertising agency dabbles in - because they're really marketing
specialists to whom all this 'programming stuff' is part of the cost
of displaying advertisements they'd rather (and totally rationally
in this case) want to get rid of.

The problem with this is that computers do more (and much more
sophisticated) things than "being your plastic pal who's fun to be
with" and what minimizes the per-case workload of the guy who decides
on the colour said 'plastic pal' should have today (and hence, helps
him to maximize his income for a given time period) might not be the
most sensible way to construct 24x7 autonomously operating software
system people rely on in order to get some (not inherently
computer-related) job done.

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Thread

CPAN vs. POD outside of .pm (.pl) files? Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 14:20 +0000
  Re: CPAN vs. POD outside of .pm (.pl) files? Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-06-17 16:12 +0100
    Re: CPAN vs. POD outside of .pm (.pl) files? Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 15:39 +0000
      Re: CPAN vs. POD outside of .pm (.pl) files? Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-06-17 21:03 +0100
        Re: CPAN vs. POD outside of .pm (.pl) files? Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-06-27 05:42 +0000
          Re: CPAN vs. POD outside of .pm (.pl) files? Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-06-27 08:12 +0100
            issues with POD Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-06-27 08:50 +0000
              Re: issues with POD Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-06-27 12:32 +0100
                Re: issues with POD Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-06-27 12:48 +0000
                Re: issues with POD Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-06-27 14:53 +0100
                $ pod2man --quotes= Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-06-27 15:20 +0000
                Re: issues with POD Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-06-27 15:25 +0000
                Re: issues with POD Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-06-27 22:21 +0100
                [OT] PostScript Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-06-28 11:58 +0000
                Re: issues with POD Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-06-28 12:04 +0000
                Re: issues with POD Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2013-06-30 08:37 -0400
                Re: issues with POD Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 17:57 +0000
                Re: issues with POD Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2013-07-01 17:38 -0400
                Re: issues with POD Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2013-06-30 19:44 +0100
                Re: issues with POD Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2013-06-28 14:29 +0100
                [OT] non-issues with non-solutions Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-06-28 13:45 +0000
                Re: [OT] non-issues with non-solutions Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2013-06-28 15:13 +0100
                Re: [OT] non-issues with non-solutions Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2013-06-29 19:37 +0100
                a-Moose-ing CGI Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 07:56 +0000
                Re: a-Moose-ing CGI Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2013-06-30 14:05 +0100
                Re: a-Moose-ing CGI Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-07-01 13:26 +0100
                Re: a-Moose-ing CGI Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2013-07-01 18:12 +0100
                [OT] CGI: "Fast" vs. "classic" Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 17:27 +0000
                Re: [OT] CGI: "Fast" vs. "classic" Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2013-07-01 18:45 +0100
                Re: a-Moose-ing CGI Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-07-01 18:52 +0100
                Re: issues with POD Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-07-01 13:29 +0100
                Re: issues with POD "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet3@hjp.at> - 2013-07-01 17:19 +0200
                Re: issues with POD Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-07-01 18:38 +0100
                Re: issues with POD Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@mail.com> - 2013-07-02 10:13 +0200
                Re: issues with POD "Dave Saville" <dave@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-02 08:54 +0000
                Re: issues with POD Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-07-02 11:42 +0100
                perldoc and perl-doc Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 11:17 +0000
                Re: perldoc and perl-doc Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2013-07-02 12:37 +0100
                Re: perldoc and perl-doc Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 14:34 +0000
                Re: perldoc and perl-doc Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> - 2013-07-02 08:18 -0700
                Re: perldoc and perl-doc Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 15:23 +0000
                Re: perldoc and perl-doc Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> - 2013-07-03 09:41 +0300
                Re: perldoc and perl-doc "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet3@hjp.at> - 2013-07-02 17:38 +0200
                Re: perldoc and perl-doc Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-07-02 16:37 +0100
                Re: perldoc and perl-doc Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2013-07-02 17:20 +0100
                Re: perldoc and perl-doc Charlton Wilbur <cwilbur@chromatico.net> - 2013-07-02 12:08 -0400
                [OT] MIME adoption in Usenet Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 12:59 +0000
                Re: [OT] MIME adoption in Usenet Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-07-03 17:49 +0100
                Re: issues with POD tmcd@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) - 2013-06-27 18:43 +0000

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