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Re: LISP AI folklore

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  Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-22 12:31 -0700
    Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-23 11:17 +0300
      Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-23 10:50 -0700
        Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-24 09:06 +0300
          Re: LISP AI folklore Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-10-24 12:01 +0200
            Re: LISP AI folklore Dr J R Stockton <reply1143@merlyn.demon.co.uk> - 2011-10-25 19:36 +0100
          Re: LISP AI folklore Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-24 17:16 +0000
          Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-24 11:54 -0700
            Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-25 05:12 +0300
              Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-25 11:44 -0700
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-26 15:13 +0300
                  Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-26 11:12 -0700
                    Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-27 15:52 +0300
                      Re: LISP AI folklore "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2011-10-27 15:08 +0200
                        Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-27 16:58 +0300
                          Re: LISP AI folklore "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2011-10-27 16:16 +0200
                          Re: LISP AI folklore Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-27 16:17 +0000
                          Re: LISP AI folklore Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2011-10-27 17:31 +0100
                          Re: LISP AI folklore "Richard Cornford" <Richard@litotes.demon.co.uk> - 2011-10-27 18:42 +0100
                            Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-27 12:39 -0700
                              Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-28 00:39 +0300
                                Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-27 15:47 -0700
                                  Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-28 06:51 +0300
                                    Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-28 06:56 +0300
                                      Re: LISP AI folklore Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-10-28 14:54 +0200
                                        Re: LISP AI folklore John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2011-10-28 16:02 +0100
                                    Re: LISP AI folklore Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-29 15:39 +0000
                                Re: LISP AI folklore Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2011-11-11 10:34 +0100
                                  Re: LISP AI folklore Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 11:45 -0800
                          Re: LISP AI folklore Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2011-11-11 10:30 +0100
                  Re: LISP AI folklore BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-10-26 11:21 -0700
                    Re: LISP AI folklore vandys@vsta.org - 2011-10-26 20:11 +0000
                      Re: LISP AI folklore "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-10-27 07:42 +1100
                      Re: LISP AI folklore BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-10-27 22:47 -0700
                        Re: LISP AI folklore John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2011-10-28 11:03 +0100
                          Re: LISP AI folklore BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-10-28 11:07 -0700
                            Re: LISP AI folklore John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2011-10-29 15:14 +0100
                            Re: LISP AI folklore rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2011-10-30 19:43 -0500
                              Re: LISP AI folklore Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-10-31 08:45 -0400
                    Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-28 18:40 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-26 19:30 +0000

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#7625 — Re: LISP AI folklore

On Oct 22, 2:39 am, Antti J Ylikoski <antti.yliko...@aalto.fi> wrote:
> 15.10.2011 23:58, Mentifex kirjoitti:
> [...]
> > Sorry, script kiddies, v.t.y. Mentifex has already
> > BTDT (been there, done that) with the following
> > exchange of views between Mentifex and His Nibs:
>
> > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/04814d7fcec9d16e
> > asking Dr. McCarthy if he regrets pioneering AI.
>
> > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/5a20daf7c361275b
> > where the Piafesque answer is, "Je ne regrette rien."
>
> > Mentifex (Arthur)
> > --
> > http://aimind-i.com
> > http://mind.sourceforge.net/lisp.html
> > http://www.tfeb.org/lisp/mad-people.html
> > http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html
>
> It reads in the Sourceforge site:
>
> "This weblog invites Lisp programmers to implement the
> main Alife Mind loop of the simplest artificial intelligence."
>
> I might want to carry out some work for the Mentifex project,
> if that's what is desired above.  I have been more or less
> working with LISP since the 1980's.

http://mind.sourceforge.net/aisteps.html
describes how to replicate in Lisp the
open-source AI Mind in Forth from

http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mindforth.txt

and in JavaScript for MSIE from

http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html

and as replicated in Win32Forth at the

http://aimind-i.com website.

Be forewarned, please, that it is not easy
to recode the artificial Mind from Forth or
JavaScript into any other language, even
Lisp, the original McCarthy AI language.
>
> The manuscript of my PhD thesis
> (with some dozen known errors) is in
> http://www.tkk.fi/~ajy/diss.pdf .  Oh yes,
> and the work needs to be carefully
> scrutinized for correct English.
>
> (BTW in http://www.tkk.fi/~ajy/FreeBASIC/ST.BAS
> there is there the famous Star Trek computer game
> in a modern version.)
>
> kind regards, Mr Antti J Ylikoski
> Helsinki, Finland, the EU
>
And Fortunatus wrote upthread:
> Oh, my golly, it's been a long time hearing from Mentifex!
> How are you, ol' fella?
Just fine, Fortunatus, And how are you?

Cheers,

Arthur T. Murray (a.k.a. "Mentifex")
--
http://cyborg.blogspot.com/2011/01/aiapp.html
http://www.chatbots.org/ai_zone/viewthread/240/
http://code.google.com/p/mindforth/wiki/JsAiManual
http://groups.google.com/group/net.ai/msg/3a4429a7b26d40ef/

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#7632

22.10.2011 22:31, Mentifex kirjoitti:
> On Oct 22, 2:39 am, Antti J Ylikoski<antti.yliko...@aalto.fi>  wrote:
>> 15.10.2011 23:58, Mentifex kirjoitti:
>> [...]
>>> Sorry, script kiddies, v.t.y. Mentifex has already
>>> BTDT (been there, done that) with the following
>>> exchange of views between Mentifex and His Nibs:
>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/04814d7fcec9d16e
>>> asking Dr. McCarthy if he regrets pioneering AI.
>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/5a20daf7c361275b
>>> where the Piafesque answer is, "Je ne regrette rien."
>>
>>> Mentifex (Arthur)
>>> --
>>> http://aimind-i.com
>>> http://mind.sourceforge.net/lisp.html
>>> http://www.tfeb.org/lisp/mad-people.html
>>> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html
>>
>> It reads in the Sourceforge site:
>>
>> "This weblog invites Lisp programmers to implement the
>> main Alife Mind loop of the simplest artificial intelligence."
>>
>> I might want to carry out some work for the Mentifex project,
>> if that's what is desired above.  I have been more or less
>> working with LISP since the 1980's.
>
> http://mind.sourceforge.net/aisteps.html
> describes how to replicate in Lisp the
> open-source AI Mind in Forth from
>
> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mindforth.txt
>
> and in JavaScript for MSIE from
>
> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html
>
> and as replicated in Win32Forth at the
>
> http://aimind-i.com website.
>
> Be forewarned, please, that it is not easy
> to recode the artificial Mind from Forth or
> JavaScript into any other language, even
> Lisp, the original McCarthy AI language.
>>
>> The manuscript of my PhD thesis
>> (with some dozen known errors) is in
>> http://www.tkk.fi/~ajy/diss.pdf .  Oh yes,
>> and the work needs to be carefully
>> scrutinized for correct English.
>>
>> (BTW in http://www.tkk.fi/~ajy/FreeBASIC/ST.BAS
>> there is there the famous Star Trek computer game
>> in a modern version.)
>>
>> kind regards, Mr Antti J Ylikoski
>> Helsinki, Finland, the EU
>>
> And Fortunatus wrote upthread:
>> Oh, my golly, it's been a long time hearing from Mentifex!
>> How are you, ol' fella?
> Just fine, Fortunatus, And how are you?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Arthur T. Murray (a.k.a. "Mentifex")
> --
> http://cyborg.blogspot.com/2011/01/aiapp.html
> http://www.chatbots.org/ai_zone/viewthread/240/
> http://code.google.com/p/mindforth/wiki/JsAiManual
> http://groups.google.com/group/net.ai/msg/3a4429a7b26d40ef/

Thank you for the reminder about the difficulty of the task.  You have 
made me to the extent interested, that I ordered, from the Amazon.com, 
the AI4U book.

regards, Mr Antti J Ylikoski
Helsinki, Finland, the EU

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#7639

On Oct 23, 1:17 am, Antti J Ylikoski <antti.yliko...@aalto.fi> wrote:
> 22.10.2011 22:31, Mentifex kirjoitti:
> [...]
> > Be forewarned, please, that it is not easy
> > to recode the artificial Mind from Forth or
> > JavaScript into any other language, even
> > Lisp, the original McCarthy AI language.
[...]
> >> The manuscript of my PhD thesis
> >> (with some dozen known errors) is in
> >> http://www.tkk.fi/~ajy/diss.pdf .  Oh yes,
> >> and the work needs to be carefully
> >> scrutinized for correct English.
>
> >> (BTW in http://www.tkk.fi/~ajy/FreeBASIC/ST.BAS
> >> there is there the famous Star Trek computer game
> >> in a modern version.)
>
> >> kind regards, Mr Antti J Ylikoski
> >> Helsinki, Finland, the EU
>
>
> Thank you for the reminder about the difficulty
> of the task.  You have made me to the extent interested,
> that I ordered, from the Amazon.com, the AI4U book.
>
> regards, Mr Antti J Ylikoski
> Helsinki, Finland, the EU- Hide quoted text -
>
Thank you for ordering the AI4U book. It is
mainly valuable for mind-diagrams and for the
28 October 2002 JavaScript AI source code,
which has since been updated on-line at
http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html

Today I have programmed and uploaded the
http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mindforth.txt
source code of the MindForth AI, which is
more advanced than the JavaScript AI. My
plan is to finish debugging the AI-Complete
Forth program and port it to JavaScript,
which is easier for Lisp coders to use.

Meanwhile I hope that we can carry out our
AI discussions right here on comp.lang.lisp
where other interested parties may join in.

Cheers,

Arthur T. Murray
--
http://search.ebay.com/ai4u
http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/307824.307853
http://www.chatbots.org/ai_zone/viewthread/240/
http://cyborg.blogspot.com/2009/11/mainloop.html

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#7655

23.10.2011 20:50, Mentifex kirjoitti:
> On Oct 23, 1:17 am, Antti J Ylikoski<antti.yliko...@aalto.fi>  wrote:
>> 22.10.2011 22:31, Mentifex kirjoitti:
>> [...]
>>> Be forewarned, please, that it is not easy
>>> to recode the artificial Mind from Forth or
>>> JavaScript into any other language, even
>>> Lisp, the original McCarthy AI language.
> [...]
>>>> The manuscript of my PhD thesis
>>>> (with some dozen known errors) is in
>>>> http://www.tkk.fi/~ajy/diss.pdf .  Oh yes,
>>>> and the work needs to be carefully
>>>> scrutinized for correct English.
>>
>>>> (BTW in http://www.tkk.fi/~ajy/FreeBASIC/ST.BAS
>>>> there is there the famous Star Trek computer game
>>>> in a modern version.)
>>
>>>> kind regards, Mr Antti J Ylikoski
>>>> Helsinki, Finland, the EU
>>
>>
>> Thank you for the reminder about the difficulty
>> of the task.  You have made me to the extent interested,
>> that I ordered, from the Amazon.com, the AI4U book.
>>
>> regards, Mr Antti J Ylikoski
>> Helsinki, Finland, the EU- Hide quoted text -
>>
> Thank you for ordering the AI4U book. It is
> mainly valuable for mind-diagrams and for the
> 28 October 2002 JavaScript AI source code,
> which has since been updated on-line at
> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html
>
> Today I have programmed and uploaded the
> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mindforth.txt
> source code of the MindForth AI, which is
> more advanced than the JavaScript AI. My
> plan is to finish debugging the AI-Complete
> Forth program and port it to JavaScript,
> which is easier for Lisp coders to use.
>
> Meanwhile I hope that we can carry out our
> AI discussions right here on comp.lang.lisp
> where other interested parties may join in.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Arthur T. Murray
> --
> http://search.ebay.com/ai4u
> http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/307824.307853
> http://www.chatbots.org/ai_zone/viewthread/240/
> http://cyborg.blogspot.com/2009/11/mainloop.html
>

I attempted to run the FORTH Mentifex program Mind.f.  I could not.

I get the error message that the FORTH that I have was made for a 32-bit 
operating system, whereas the computer I have has a 64-bit processor and 
a 64-bit operating system.

(I have an Acer ASPIRE 5742G, with the 64-bit Windows and a 64-bit Intel 
CORE i5 processor.)

yours, A. J. Y.

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#7657

Antti J Ylikoski wrote:

> Mentifex [wrote]:
>> [the usual nonsense]
> 
> I attempted to run the FORTH Mentifex program Mind.f.  I could not.
> 
> I get the error message that the FORTH that I have was made for a 32-bit
> operating system, whereas the computer I have has a 64-bit processor and
> a 64-bit operating system.
> 
> (I have an Acer ASPIRE 5742G, with the 64-bit Windows and a 64-bit Intel
> CORE i5 processor.)

*Please* do not feed the troll.

<http://www.nothingisreal.com/mentifex_faq.html>


X-Post trimmed to Big8, F'up2 poster

PointedEars
-- 
Use any version of Microsoft Frontpage to create your site.
(This won't prevent people from viewing your source, but no one
will want to steal it.)
  -- from <http://www.vortex-webdesign.com/help/hidesource.htm> (404-comp.)

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#7690

In comp.lang.javascript message <3005692.SPkdTlGXAF@PointedEars.de>,
Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:01:42, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
<PointedEars@web.de> posted:

>Antti J Ylikoski wrote:
>
>> Mentifex [wrote]:
>>> [the usual nonsense]
>>
>> I attempted to run the FORTH Mentifex program Mind.f.  I could not.
>>
>> I get the error message that the FORTH that I have was made for a 32-bit
>> operating system, whereas the computer I have has a 64-bit processor and
>> a 64-bit operating system.
>>
>> (I have an Acer ASPIRE 5742G, with the 64-bit Windows and a 64-bit Intel
>> CORE i5 processor.)
>
>*Please* do not feed the troll.
>
><http://www.nothingisreal.com/mentifex_faq.html>
>
>
>X-Post trimmed to Big8,

That is bad manners, since it makes the thread visible to those whose
kill-rules had previously concealed its existence.

There was, of course, no need for you to respond, because you had
nothing useful to contribute.

Please learn and sing the reputed Siamese National Anthem.

-- 
 (c) John Stockton, nr London UK. replyYYWW merlyn demon co uk Turnpike 6.05.
   Web <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html> -> Timo Salmi: Usenet Q&A.
   Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/news-use.htm> :  about usage of News.
 No Encoding. Quotes precede replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Mail no News.

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#7664

On 2011-10-24, Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> wrote:
> I attempted to run the FORTH Mentifex program Mind.f.  I could not.

Do you honestly think that some little Forth program is going to make some kind
of dent in the AI problem.

Maybe you secretly have faith or hope in the idea that the (hitherto unknown)
complexity required to make some kind of thinking machine is exaggerated and
removable.

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#7666

On Oct 23, 11:06 pm, Antti J Ylikoski <antti.yliko...@aalto.fi> wrote:
> [...]
> I attempted to run the FORTH Mentifex program Mind.f.  I could not.
>
> I get the error message that the FORTH that I have was made for a 32-bit
> operating system, whereas the computer I have has a 64-bit processor and
> a 64-bit operating system.
>
> (I have an Acer ASPIRE 5742G, with the 64-bit Windows and a 64-bit Intel
> CORE i5 processor.)
>
> yours, A. J. Y.

MindForth works in either 32-bit W32FOR42_671.zip Win32Forth free
from

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/win32forth/W32FOR42_671.zip?download

or in 64-bit iForth (Intel Forth) that costs money from

http://store.kagi.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?storeID=AMP_Live&currency=USD

(notice that you may switch to a page in Finnish :-)

and two years ago in ca. October 2009 I paid for the
iForth which I downloaded onto my
32-bit Acer Aspire with Windows-XP Home Edition.
Gradually I learned that the same MindForth code
from Win32Forth would run unchanged in the iForth.

Just this morning on Mon.24.OCT.2011 I made major
improvements to MindForth and uploaded it to

http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mindforth.txt

and I published my "AI Lab Notes" or
"MindForth Programming Journal" at

http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mfpj.html

which is not a permanent webpage.
If you are still interested, please read

http://cyborg.blogspot.com/2009/11/linux.html

which is all about coding 64-bit iForth MindForth.

It is really excellent that you are working on
a 64-bit machine, a goal described in the

http://code.google.com/p/mindforth/wiki/AiStandards

document of the Google Code MindForth AI project.

As for anyone who asks if "some little Forth program
is going to make some kind of dent in the AI problem",
MindForth is now 4,500 lines of code and growing,
over the past thirteen years since 1998. The same
artificial intelligence has a JavaScript tutorial at

http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html

and if coding AI in 32-bit or 64-bit Forth
is not appealing to you, please check back in
periodically on the JavaScript tutorial version.

Very truly yours, A.T.M.

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#7676

24.10.2011 21:54, Mentifex kirjoitti:
> On Oct 23, 11:06 pm, Antti J Ylikoski<antti.yliko...@aalto.fi>  wrote:
>> [...]
>> I attempted to run the FORTH Mentifex program Mind.f.  I could not.
>>
>> I get the error message that the FORTH that I have was made for a 32-bit
>> operating system, whereas the computer I have has a 64-bit processor and
>> a 64-bit operating system.
>>
>> (I have an Acer ASPIRE 5742G, with the 64-bit Windows and a 64-bit Intel
>> CORE i5 processor.)
>>
>> yours, A. J. Y.
>
> MindForth works in either 32-bit W32FOR42_671.zip Win32Forth free
> from
>
> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/win32forth/W32FOR42_671.zip?download
>
> or in 64-bit iForth (Intel Forth) that costs money from
>
> http://store.kagi.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?storeID=AMP_Live&currency=USD
>
> (notice that you may switch to a page in Finnish :-)
>
> and two years ago in ca. October 2009 I paid for the
> iForth which I downloaded onto my
> 32-bit Acer Aspire with Windows-XP Home Edition.
> Gradually I learned that the same MindForth code
> from Win32Forth would run unchanged in the iForth.
>
> Just this morning on Mon.24.OCT.2011 I made major
> improvements to MindForth and uploaded it to
>
> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mindforth.txt
>
> and I published my "AI Lab Notes" or
> "MindForth Programming Journal" at
>
> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mfpj.html
>
> which is not a permanent webpage.
> If you are still interested, please read
>
> http://cyborg.blogspot.com/2009/11/linux.html
>
> which is all about coding 64-bit iForth MindForth.
>
> It is really excellent that you are working on
> a 64-bit machine, a goal described in the
>
> http://code.google.com/p/mindforth/wiki/AiStandards
>
> document of the Google Code MindForth AI project.
>
> As for anyone who asks if "some little Forth program
> is going to make some kind of dent in the AI problem",
> MindForth is now 4,500 lines of code and growing,
> over the past thirteen years since 1998. The same
> artificial intelligence has a JavaScript tutorial at
>
> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html
>
> and if coding AI in 32-bit or 64-bit Forth
> is not appealing to you, please check back in
> periodically on the JavaScript tutorial version.
>
> Very truly yours, A.T.M.

Downloading the 32bit FORTH did not work, because of a file related 
problem.  I don't know whether I will order the 64-bit Intel FORTH -- it 
is 131 dollars.

What kind of thing is the Mentifex capable of?  Can it write short 
stories?  I get the impression that it only outputs nongrammatical 
sentence fragments -- is that wrong?

yours, AJY

PS.  And, I want to avoid unjustifiedly discrediting your work -- first 
I want to see it in practice.

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#7680

On Oct 24, 7:12 pm, Antti J Ylikoski <antti.yliko...@aalto.fi> wrote:
> 24.10.2011 21:54, Mentifex kirjoitti: [...]
> > MindForth works in either 32-bit W32FOR42_671.zip
> > Win32Forth free from
>
> > http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/win32forth/W32FOR42_671.zip?download
>
> > or in 64-bit iForth (Intel Forth) that costs money from
>
> > http://store.kagi.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?storeID=AMP_Live¤cy=USD
> [...]
>
> Downloading the 32bit FORTH did not work, because of
> a file related problem.  I don't know whether I will
> order the 64-bit Intel FORTH -- it is 131 dollars.
>
> What kind of thing is the Mentifex capable of?

The Mentifex AI is capable of thought, of thinking.
When you run the AI Mind in either Forth or JavaScript,
it starts thinking by itself as an invitation for any nearby
human to communicate with the AI by entering a short
English sentence (e.g. "i am antti") or a query,
such as "who are you" or "what are you".

If you use an English noun that is unknown to the AI,
such as "uncorn" or "spooks", it will decide whether
the noun is singular or plural and wait for a pause in
the conversation to ask you a question like,
"WHAT IS A UNICORN" or "WHAT ARE SPOOKS".

If you use an unknown English noun in the
plural, the AI is conditioned first to ask you
something like "What do spooks do?", then
to wait for your answer (e.g., "Spooks scare people"),
and then to  convert your answer to a speculative
question, e.g., "DO ROBOTS SCARE PEOPLE".
When you answer yes, no, maybe or nothing,
the AI retroactively adjusts its knowledge base
with all the associative-tag changes entailed
by your yes-or-no answer.

The Mentifex AI Mind uses neural inhibition
to briefly suppress any idea retrieved from
the knowledge base, perhaps in answer to
a query, so that different ideas may "come
to mind" as successively different answers
to the same query.

> Can it write short stories?

Not yet as a creative writer, but in tandem with you
it can create a printable transcript of a very
science-fiction-esque document -- a record of
yourself in conversation with the first True AI.

> I get the impression that it only outputs
> nongrammatical sentence fragments -- is that wrong?

It outputs complete sentences on the order of
Subject - Predicate - Object (SPO) triples.
It comprehends these SPO triples by
creating associative tags among the concepts
in each triple. The power of the AI lies in its
ability to comprehend, learn and remember
any small subset of tens of thousands of
SPO triples. (Reasoning must come later.)

http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html
is the JavaScript AI which will soon be as
advanced and powerful as the MindForth AI.

Thank you for you interest.

Cheers,

ATM

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#7695

25.10.2011 21:44, Mentifex kirjoitti:
> On Oct 24, 7:12 pm, Antti J Ylikoski<antti.yliko...@aalto.fi>  wrote:
>> 24.10.2011 21:54, Mentifex kirjoitti: [...]
>>> MindForth works in either 32-bit W32FOR42_671.zip
>>> Win32Forth free from
>>
>>> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/win32forth/W32FOR42_671.zip?download
>>
>>> or in 64-bit iForth (Intel Forth) that costs money from
>>
>>> http://store.kagi.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?storeID=AMP_Live¤cy=USD
>> [...]
>>
>> Downloading the 32bit FORTH did not work, because of
>> a file related problem.  I don't know whether I will
>> order the 64-bit Intel FORTH -- it is 131 dollars.
>>
>> What kind of thing is the Mentifex capable of?
>
> The Mentifex AI is capable of thought, of thinking.
> When you run the AI Mind in either Forth or JavaScript,
> it starts thinking by itself as an invitation for any nearby
> human to communicate with the AI by entering a short
> English sentence (e.g. "i am antti") or a query,
> such as "who are you" or "what are you".
>
> If you use an English noun that is unknown to the AI,
> such as "uncorn" or "spooks", it will decide whether
> the noun is singular or plural and wait for a pause in
> the conversation to ask you a question like,
> "WHAT IS A UNICORN" or "WHAT ARE SPOOKS".
>
> If you use an unknown English noun in the
> plural, the AI is conditioned first to ask you
> something like "What do spooks do?", then
> to wait for your answer (e.g., "Spooks scare people"),
> and then to  convert your answer to a speculative
> question, e.g., "DO ROBOTS SCARE PEOPLE".
> When you answer yes, no, maybe or nothing,
> the AI retroactively adjusts its knowledge base
> with all the associative-tag changes entailed
> by your yes-or-no answer.
>
> The Mentifex AI Mind uses neural inhibition
> to briefly suppress any idea retrieved from
> the knowledge base, perhaps in answer to
> a query, so that different ideas may "come
> to mind" as successively different answers
> to the same query.
>
>> Can it write short stories?
>
> Not yet as a creative writer, but in tandem with you
> it can create a printable transcript of a very
> science-fiction-esque document -- a record of
> yourself in conversation with the first True AI.
>
>> I get the impression that it only outputs
>> nongrammatical sentence fragments -- is that wrong?
>
> It outputs complete sentences on the order of
> Subject - Predicate - Object (SPO) triples.
> It comprehends these SPO triples by
> creating associative tags among the concepts
> in each triple. The power of the AI lies in its
> ability to comprehend, learn and remember
> any small subset of tens of thousands of
> SPO triples. (Reasoning must come later.)
>
> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html
> is the JavaScript AI which will soon be as
> advanced and powerful as the MindForth AI.
>
> Thank you for you interest.
>
> Cheers,
>
> ATM

See with the Google, Joseph Weizenbaum's ELIZA program and its numerous 
reincarnations in multiple languages, even in early microcomputer BASIC.
If you can use the GNU Emacs then the ELIZA (the original version) can 
be started with the command M-x doctor .

Can the Mentifex program do something significantly exceeding ELIZA's 
capabilities?  It does not really convince me if an "AI" program can 
give more of less canned answers to seeing some preset texts in its input.

Sorry if I'm being harsh, but that's the kind of treatment an individual 
will confront if he/she claims to have created a bit of real science.

yours, Andy

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#7700

On Oct 26, 5:13 am, Antti J Ylikoski <antti.yliko...@aalto.fi> wrote:
> [...]

First off, please be advised that over 25 and 26.OCT.2011 I
have labored exhaustively to bring the JavaScript AI (JSAI) at

http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html

up on a par with the 32-bit or 64-bit MindForth AI.
Therefore Lisp programmers no longer need to
download Forth and run MindForth to see how the
AI mind learns, thinks and remembers.

> Can the Mentifex program do something significantly
> exceeding ELIZA's  capabilities?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA may make a pretense
at thinking, but MindForth and the JSAI can _only_ think
and can not pretend in the way that Eliza pretends.

>  It does not really convince me if an "AI" program
> can  give more or less canned answers to seeing
> some preset texts in its input.

MindForth and the JSAI have some built-in _tendencies_
to help things along, but there are no "canned answers"
or "preset texts" being looked for in the inputs.

> Sorry if I'm being harsh, but that's the kind of treatment an individual
> will confront if he/she claims to have created a bit of real science.

The Mentifex AI project is not science, it is philosophy.

> yours, Andy

"Andru" is the name of the AI Mind when it
thinks about itself, because it is a short word;
it hints at "Android"; and it looks science-fictiony
(in a philosophy-centered way, of course).

This is a sad time in comp.lang.lisp, and I
am glad to have interacted here with John
McCarthy long ago. May he rest in peace.

Bye for now.

Arthur T. Murray
--
Charter member (with Tim Bradshaw) of
Mad People of Comp.Lang.Lisp at
http://www.tfeb.org/lisp/mad-people.html
http://mind.sourceforge.net/lisp.html

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#7721

26.10.2011 21:12, Mentifex kirjoitti:
> On Oct 26, 5:13 am, Antti J Ylikoski<antti.yliko...@aalto.fi>  wrote:
>> [...]
>
> First off, please be advised that over 25 and 26.OCT.2011 I
> have labored exhaustively to bring the JavaScript AI (JSAI) at
>
> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html
>
> up on a par with the 32-bit or 64-bit MindForth AI.
> Therefore Lisp programmers no longer need to
> download Forth and run MindForth to see how the
> AI mind learns, thinks and remembers.
>
>> Can the Mentifex program do something significantly
>> exceeding ELIZA's  capabilities?
>

Where can I see this JSAI Mentifex' source code, I would like to ask.

I attempted to carry out a conversation with this JavaScript Mentifex, 
but I cannot evaluate it on that evidence alone.  It was not a very 
fluent companion in the discussion, anyway.

yours, A. J. Y, attempting not to troll this group but carry out a 
scientific discussion.............

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#7722

Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> writes:

> 26.10.2011 21:12, Mentifex kirjoitti:
>> On Oct 26, 5:13 am, Antti J Ylikoski<antti.yliko...@aalto.fi>  wrote:
>>> [...]
>>
>> First off, please be advised that over 25 and 26.OCT.2011 I
>> have labored exhaustively to bring the JavaScript AI (JSAI) at
>>
>> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html
>>
>> up on a par with the 32-bit or 64-bit MindForth AI.
>> Therefore Lisp programmers no longer need to
>> download Forth and run MindForth to see how the
>> AI mind learns, thinks and remembers.
>>
>>> Can the Mentifex program do something significantly
>>> exceeding ELIZA's  capabilities?
>>
>
> Where can I see this JSAI Mentifex' source code, I would like to ask.
>
> I attempted to carry out a conversation with this JavaScript Mentifex,
> but I cannot evaluate it on that evidence alone.  It was not a very
> fluent companion in the discussion, anyway.
>
> yours, A. J. Y, attempting not to troll this group but carry out a
> scientific discussion.............
>

wget http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html && emacs AiMind.html

-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__                     http://www.informatimago.com/
A bad day in () is better than a good day in {}.

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#7723

27.10.2011 16:08, Pascal J. Bourguignon kirjoitti:
> Antti J Ylikoski<antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi>  writes:
>
>> 26.10.2011 21:12, Mentifex kirjoitti:
>>> On Oct 26, 5:13 am, Antti J Ylikoski<antti.yliko...@aalto.fi>   wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>
>>> First off, please be advised that over 25 and 26.OCT.2011 I
>>> have labored exhaustively to bring the JavaScript AI (JSAI) at
>>>
>>> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html
>>>
>>> up on a par with the 32-bit or 64-bit MindForth AI.
>>> Therefore Lisp programmers no longer need to
>>> download Forth and run MindForth to see how the
>>> AI mind learns, thinks and remembers.
>>>
>>>> Can the Mentifex program do something significantly
>>>> exceeding ELIZA's  capabilities?
>>>
>>
>> Where can I see this JSAI Mentifex' source code, I would like to ask.
>>
>> I attempted to carry out a conversation with this JavaScript Mentifex,
>> but I cannot evaluate it on that evidence alone.  It was not a very
>> fluent companion in the discussion, anyway.
>>
>> yours, A. J. Y, attempting not to troll this group but carry out a
>> scientific discussion.............
>>
>
> wget http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html&&  emacs AiMind.html
>

Thank you, but that works for Unix & Linux, and I'm using the Windows 7.

I recommend others to attempt to converse with that JavaScript Mentifex 
and evaluate it themselves.  Most of the time it does not seem to give 
very fitting answers..............

yours, AJY

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#7724

Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> writes:

> 27.10.2011 16:08, Pascal J. Bourguignon kirjoitti:
>> Antti J Ylikoski<antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi>  writes:
>>
>>> 26.10.2011 21:12, Mentifex kirjoitti:
>>>> On Oct 26, 5:13 am, Antti J Ylikoski<antti.yliko...@aalto.fi>   wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> First off, please be advised that over 25 and 26.OCT.2011 I
>>>> have labored exhaustively to bring the JavaScript AI (JSAI) at
>>>>
>>>> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html
>>>>
>>>> up on a par with the 32-bit or 64-bit MindForth AI.
>>>> Therefore Lisp programmers no longer need to
>>>> download Forth and run MindForth to see how the
>>>> AI mind learns, thinks and remembers.
>>>>
>>>>> Can the Mentifex program do something significantly
>>>>> exceeding ELIZA's  capabilities?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Where can I see this JSAI Mentifex' source code, I would like to ask.
>>>
>>> I attempted to carry out a conversation with this JavaScript Mentifex,
>>> but I cannot evaluate it on that evidence alone.  It was not a very
>>> fluent companion in the discussion, anyway.
>>>
>>> yours, A. J. Y, attempting not to troll this group but carry out a
>>> scientific discussion.............
>>>
>>
>> wget http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html&&  emacs AiMind.html
>>
>
> Thank you, but that works for Unix & Linux, and I'm using the Windows 7.

On Windows, start by downloading and installing cygwin

   http://cygwin.com/setup.exe

Be sure to select wget and emacs when you install cygwin packages, then
launch a cygwin shell and:

   wget http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html&&  emacs AiMind.html



-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__                     http://www.informatimago.com/
A bad day in () is better than a good day in {}.

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#7725

On 2011-10-27, Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> wrote:
> Thank you, but that works for Unix & Linux, and I'm using the Windows 7.

Yet you're able to maintain a self-image as a researcher in the field of
computing. :)

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#7726

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 16:58:43 +0300
Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> wrote:

> 27.10.2011 16:08, Pascal J. Bourguignon kirjoitti:
> > Antti J Ylikoski<antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi>  writes:
> >
> >> 26.10.2011 21:12, Mentifex kirjoitti:
> >>> On Oct 26, 5:13 am, Antti J Ylikoski<antti.yliko...@aalto.fi>   wrote:
> >>>> [...]
> >>>
> >>> First off, please be advised that over 25 and 26.OCT.2011 I
> >>> have labored exhaustively to bring the JavaScript AI (JSAI) at
> >>>
> >>> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html
> >>>
> >>> up on a par with the 32-bit or 64-bit MindForth AI.
> >>> Therefore Lisp programmers no longer need to
> >>> download Forth and run MindForth to see how the
> >>> AI mind learns, thinks and remembers.
> >>>
> >>>> Can the Mentifex program do something significantly
> >>>> exceeding ELIZA's  capabilities?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Where can I see this JSAI Mentifex' source code, I would like to ask.
> >>
> >> I attempted to carry out a conversation with this JavaScript Mentifex,
> >> but I cannot evaluate it on that evidence alone.  It was not a very
> >> fluent companion in the discussion, anyway.
> >>
> >> yours, A. J. Y, attempting not to troll this group but carry out a
> >> scientific discussion.............
> >>
> >
> > wget http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html&&  emacs AiMind.html
> >
> 
> Thank you, but that works for Unix & Linux, and I'm using the Windows 7.

	Point browser at http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html and
select View/Page Source (or whatever the equivalent is on your browser),
or use File/Save Page As and then open it in a text editor.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN                                      | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#7729

Antti J Ylikoski wrote:
> 27.10.2011 16:08, Pascal J. Bourguignon kirjoitti:
>> Antti J Ylikoski<antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi>  writes:
<snip>
>>> Where can I see this JSAI Mentifex' source code, I would like
>>> to ask.
>>>
>>> I attempted to carry out a conversation with this JavaScript
>>> Mentifex, but I cannot evaluate it on that evidence alone.
>>> It was not a very fluent companion in the discussion, anyway.
>>>
>>> yours, A. J. Y, attempting not to troll this group but carry
>>> out a scientific discussion.............
>>>
>>
>> wget http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html&&  emacs AiMind.html
>>
>
> Thank you, but that works for Unix & Linux, and I'm using the
> Windows 7.

In the case of the code associated with that URL the javascript source 
is within the HTML source, so if you load it into IE, right click and 
select "View Source" from the context menu a window will open showing 
the source (containing the javascript), which can then be saved (and a 
very similar procedure will be available on most other browsers, even if 
they won't necessarily be able to execute the javascript (because it is 
written to be very IE specific)).

On the other hand, once you have the source code the most useful thing 
you could do with it is delete it.
As an example of javascript code it has no merits, and its shortcomings 
in other areas are self-evident.

> I recommend others to attempt to converse with that JavaScript
> Mentifex and evaluate it themselves.

Well, I suppose it won't waste that much time to determine that it 
gibbers incoherently for yourself.

> Most of the time it does not seem to give very fitting 
> answers..............

And the rest of the time any 'fitting' answers are probably down to 
coincidence. Didn't someone mention confirmation bias?

Richard. 

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#7744

On Oct 27, 10:42 am, "Richard Cornford" <Rich...@litotes.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
> In the case of the code associated with that URL the javascript source
> is within the HTML source, so if you load it into IE, right click and
> select "View Source" from the context menu a window will open showing
> the source (containing the javascript), which can then be saved (and a
> very similar procedure will be available on most other browsers, even if
> they won't necessarily be able to execute the javascript (because it is
> written to be very IE specific)).

And Netizens who "save" the AiMind.html source code
to an HTML file are invited to host successive versions
of the AI Mind.html on their own website.

>
> On the other hand, once you have the source code the most
> useful thing you could do with it is delete it.

Ouch! Et tu, Richard? (Richard and I go way back, to 2004.)

> As an example of javascript code it has no merits, and
> its shortcomings in other areas are self-evident.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.ai.nat-lang/msg/5921ee40ae0b94aa
on "Self-Rejuvenating Immortal Artificial Intelligence" in 2004
may be the time and place when Richard Cornford lost confidence
in Mentifex AI. Nevertheless I have a high regard for Richard
Cornford's knowledge and expertise in all things JavaScript.
Le tout Internet may despise Mentifex AI, but Richard Cornford
is too important a netgod for me to give up on. People who
click on the above link and read the discussion back in 2004
may see that Richard Cornford complained about "global variables"
being used (back then) in the JavaScript AI. A year or two ago,
I "deglobalized" most of the global variable in MindForth and in
http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html for Internet Explorer.

AJY:
> > I recommend others to attempt to converse with that JavaScript
> > Mentifex and evaluate it themselves.
>
> Well, I suppose it won't waste that much time to determine that it
> gibbers incoherently for yourself.

It no longer gibbers! It uses simple sentences of the
Subject-Predicate-Object (SPO) variety.

>
> > Most of the time it does not seem to give very fitting
> > answers..............
>
> And the rest of the time any 'fitting' answers are probably down to
> coincidence. Didn't someone mention confirmation bias?
>
> Richard.

Right now the JSAI is having problems with the WhatBe()
module, which holds onto any new noun and asks a
question about it. I am correcting the deficiencies.

Bye for now,

Arthur T. Murray

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