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Should I take a contract position?

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  Should I take a contract position? kramer31 <kramer.newsreader@gmail.com> - 2012-04-03 16:21 -0700
    Re: Should I take a contract position? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-03 18:28 -0700
      Re: Should I take a contract position? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-04-04 13:07 -0700
        Re: Should I take a contract position? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-04 14:52 -0700
    Re: Should I take a contract position? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-04-04 13:01 -0700
      Re: Should I take a contract position? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-04 19:27 -0300
    Re: Should I take a contract position? William Colls <william.colls@rogers.com> - 2012-04-04 16:05 -0400
      Re: Should I take a contract position? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-04 18:20 -0700
        Re: Should I take a contract position? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-05 07:02 -0300
    Re: Should I take a contract position? Jukka Lahtinen <jtfjdehf@hotmail.com.invalid> - 2012-04-04 23:27 +0300

#13379 — Should I take a contract position?

Hey guys,

So I am pretty good Java dev who transitioned to a managementish
position inside of the company where I was working about two years
ago.  Recently, I got laid off.  I would really rather find a position
more similar to the one that I transitioned to, but Java devs are in
pretty high demand and I could pick up a contract position doing Java
development pretty easily.

I haven't really worked in a contract position before, so before I
spend a lot of time interviewing, etc. I have some questions:
1) Do contracts usually stipulate a minimum amount of time that a dev
will work at a position?  Are there penalties for leaving early (in
case I find something more to my taste)
2) Do these contract positions provide insurance usually?
2) Any other sage words from people who have done contract work?

Thanks in advance for the advice!

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#13380

kramer31 wrote:
> So I am pretty good Java dev who transitioned to a managementish
> position inside of the company where I was working about two years
> ago.  Recently, I got laid off.  I would really rather find a position
> more similar to the one that I transitioned to, but Java devs are in
> pretty high demand and I could pick up a contract position doing Java
> development pretty easily.
> 
> I haven't really worked in a contract position before, so before I

I've worked many contract positions.

> spend a lot of time interviewing, etc. I have some questions:
> 1) Do contracts usually stipulate a minimum amount of time that a dev
> will work at a position?  Are there penalties for leaving early (in
> case I find something more to my taste)

I haven't ever had a minimum-time contract, but you leave clients dangling at your long-term peril.

> 2) Do these contract positions provide insurance usually?

Not usually, but senior developers with a good relationship with a contracting firm can get insurance sometimes.

> 2) Any other sage words from people who have done contract work?

Most companies hire "at will" whether you are a contractor or a direct hire. In other words, we're all temps. Temps can do pretty well, if you keep your skills lively and can hit the ground running on your assignments. The key is to be comfortable with the temporary nature, and productive immediately upon start of each assignment.

As an interim step while searching for longer-term employment contracting can be a good way to go for a while.

-- 
Lew

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#13388

On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 18:28:57 -0700 (PDT), Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

> The ke=
>y is to be comfortable with the temporary nature, and productive immediatel=
>y upon start of each assignment.

That is very true.  In the olden days an employer would take you on
expecting you to hang in there for a decade or more. They would invest
in both your formal and informal education.  Today they want you to
hit the ground running, fully up to speed on all the specific
technologies they use.  If you need to bring yourself up to speed,
that is not billable time.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
When you were a child, if you did your own experiment
to see if it was better to put to cocoa into your cup first
or the hot milk first, then you likely have the programmer gene..

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#13394

On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 13:07:46 -0700, Roedy Green
<see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 18:28:57 -0700 (PDT), Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
>wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>> The ke=
>>y is to be comfortable with the temporary nature, and productive immediatel=
>>y upon start of each assignment.
>
>That is very true.  In the olden days an employer would take you on
>expecting you to hang in there for a decade or more. They would invest
>in both your formal and informal education.  Today they want you to
>hit the ground running, fully up to speed on all the specific
>technologies they use.  If you need to bring yourself up to speed,
>that is not billable time.

     It depends.  If it is specifically for that client and is not
particularly transferrable, I would bill.  I would discuss it with the
client first though.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#13385

On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 16:21:47 -0700 (PDT), kramer31
<kramer.newsreader@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :

>I haven't really worked in a contract position before, so before I
>spend a lot of time interviewing, etc. I have some questions:
>1) Do contracts usually stipulate a minimum amount of time that a dev
>will work at a position?  Are there penalties for leaving early (in
>case I find something more to my taste)
>2) Do these contract positions provide insurance usually?
>2) Any other sage words from people who have done contract work?

You have much more independence about when and how you work.  You
usually bill by the hour.  The contract is whatever you agree to.
The contractor usually deals with you at arms length. Insurance,
medical care, income tax .. are all your responsibility.
I doubt you will be locked in by either party unless some move was
involved.

You have to provide your own computer, books, tools, Internet
connection.

As it working as an employee, managing to work with the other people
on the project is even more important than your personal programming
skill. The most important thing is a standard code formatter that
everyone uses before checkin. Without that, people quickly come to
blows.


-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
When you were a child, if you did your own experiment
to see if it was better to put to cocoa into your cup first
or the hot milk first, then you likely have the programmer gene..

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#13397

On 12-04-04 05:01 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 16:21:47 -0700 (PDT), kramer31
> <kramer.newsreader@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
> someone who said :
> 
>> I haven't really worked in a contract position before, so before I
>> spend a lot of time interviewing, etc. I have some questions:
>> 1) Do contracts usually stipulate a minimum amount of time that a dev
>> will work at a position?  Are there penalties for leaving early (in
>> case I find something more to my taste)
>> 2) Do these contract positions provide insurance usually?
>> 2) Any other sage words from people who have done contract work?
> 
> You have much more independence about when and how you work.  You
> usually bill by the hour.  The contract is whatever you agree to.
> The contractor usually deals with you at arms length. Insurance,
> medical care, income tax .. are all your responsibility.
> I doubt you will be locked in by either party unless some move was
> involved.
> 
> You have to provide your own computer, books, tools, Internet
> connection.

No, that's dependent on the contract. All I've done for years is
contract, and it's my observation that if you contract on site,
particularly for a government unit or a decent-sized business or other
organization, that they'll actively want to provide the hardware and
software. Usually I can't even hook up my laptop to a client's network,
that's quite common.

> As it working as an employee, managing to work with the other people
> on the project is even more important than your personal programming
> skill. The most important thing is a standard code formatter that
> everyone uses before checkin. Without that, people quickly come to
> blows.

Assuming they use one. My observation, admittedly anecdotal but based on
seeing the source for dozens of applications in numerous organizational
settings, is that not many folks use code formatters. The most I've seen
is sporadic use of stock formatters in IDEs. Occasionally there is a
brief flare-up of code style enthusiasm on the part of some bright spark
or another...but that is quickly crushed.

AHS

-- 
A fly was very close to being called a "land," cause that's what they do
half the time.
-- Mitch Hedberg

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#13387

On 04/03/2012 07:21 PM, kramer31 wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> So I am pretty good Java dev who transitioned to a managementish
> position inside of the company where I was working about two years
> ago.  Recently, I got laid off.  I would really rather find a position
> more similar to the one that I transitioned to, but Java devs are in
> pretty high demand and I could pick up a contract position doing Java
> development pretty easily.
>
> I haven't really worked in a contract position before, so before I
> spend a lot of time interviewing, etc. I have some questions:
> 1) Do contracts usually stipulate a minimum amount of time that a dev
> will work at a position?  Are there penalties for leaving early (in
> case I find something more to my taste)
> 2) Do these contract positions provide insurance usually?
> 2) Any other sage words from people who have done contract work?
>
> Thanks in advance for the advice!

As a contractor, you will be considered a "small Business operator" for 
tax purposes. Payments to you will not have any taxes deducted, and you 
will need to make provision for remitting to what ever authorities have 
jurisdiction.

Will you be earning enough to have to register for VAT, GST, or what 
ever other business taxes are applicable?

Will you need to incorporate? There are pros and cons to this, and 
location can have big impact.

How much will Business Insurance cost? Do you need coverage?

Contracting can be a great way to go, but you need a fair tolerance for 
risk.

My $0.05 Cdn (we don't have pennies any more!)

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#13404

William Colls wrote:
> As a contractor, you will be considered a "small Business operator" for 
> tax purposes. Payments to you will not have any taxes deducted, and you 
> will need to make provision for remitting to what ever authorities have 
> jurisdiction.

That's only true for independent contractors.

> Will you be earning enough to have to register for VAT, GST, or what 
> ever other business taxes are applicable?

Irrelevant if you're a contractor working for a contracting firm.

> Will you need to incorporate? There are pros and cons to this, and 
> location can have big impact.

Irrelevant if you're a contractor working for a contracting firm.

> How much will Business Insurance cost? Do you need coverage?

Irrelevant if you're a contractor working for a contracting firm.

> Contracting can be a great way to go, but you need a fair tolerance for 
> risk.

About the same as for direct employment.

> My $0.05 Cdn (we don't have pennies any more!)

Huh. The U.S. still maintains its penny production, despite their negative seigniorage.

Of course, everything here is priced to the penny, so there you go.

-- 
Lew

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#13410

On 12-04-04 10:20 PM, Lew wrote:
> William Colls wrote:
>> As a contractor, you will be considered a "small Business operator" for 
>> tax purposes. Payments to you will not have any taxes deducted, and you 
>> will need to make provision for remitting to what ever authorities have 
>> jurisdiction.
> 
> That's only true for independent contractors.
> 
>> Will you be earning enough to have to register for VAT, GST, or what 
>> ever other business taxes are applicable?
> 
> Irrelevant if you're a contractor working for a contracting firm.
> 
>> Will you need to incorporate? There are pros and cons to this, and 
>> location can have big impact.
> 
> Irrelevant if you're a contractor working for a contracting firm.
> 
>> How much will Business Insurance cost? Do you need coverage?
> 
> Irrelevant if you're a contractor working for a contracting firm.
> 
>> Contracting can be a great way to go, but you need a fair tolerance for 
>> risk.
> 
> About the same as for direct employment.

In my other post in this thread I mentioned that I contract. Well, I do,
but it's contracting through a consultancy, and has been for years. So
really what's being contracted out there are company services. I have
contracted truly on my lonesome also.

I honestly feel more secure in my current situation - in my case working
in a consultancy, but being a favoured contractor for a well-regarded
contracting firm is nearly as good - than I ever have as a FT employee
for a software company.

Working as a truly independent contractor can be risky, but it doesn't
have to be. If you identify a specialized niche that's in demand you'll
never be out of work. It's the navvies of the software contracting world
- the people who know only Java or C# or RoR at the basic levels - that
have a real exciting time of it. They are much more fungible, of course,
it's no surprise.

As to my technical comments in my other post about networking and
equipment expectations, those apply for any situation: truly independent
contractor, contractor being supplied by a contracting firm, a
contractor like me who is part of a consultancy etc. My experience is
that 9 times out of 10 the good-sized organizations with solid security
will supply what is needed.

>> My $0.05 Cdn (we don't have pennies any more!)
> 
> Huh. The U.S. still maintains its penny production, despite their negative seigniorage.
> 
> Of course, everything here is priced to the penny, so there you go.
> 
So is it here in Canada, and that won't change that soon. If people pay
in cash they can't be required to pay to the penny, but payments by
debit or credit can continue to be to the penny. All that we did was
discontinue the production of the coin, but not even the circulation of
it. I stand to be corrected but I don't think there's a specified
deadline for when merchants or banks start removing pennies from the
flow even.

AHS
-- 
A fly was very close to being called a "land," cause that's what they do
half the time.
-- Mitch Hedberg

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#13389

kramer31 <kramer.newsreader@gmail.com> writes:

> 1) Do contracts usually stipulate a minimum amount of time that a dev
> will work at a position?  Are there penalties for leaving early (in
> case I find something more to my taste)
> 2) Do these contract positions provide insurance usually?
> 2) Any other sage words from people who have done contract work?

All of this probably depends on which country your contrat is in.
You didn't mention it.

-- 
Jukka Lahtinen

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