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basic learning path

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  basic learning path dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2019-03-14 15:46 -0400
    Re: basic learning path Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2019-03-14 16:21 -0400
      Re: basic learning path Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2019-03-16 15:07 +0100
        Re: basic learning path Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 05:03 -0700
          Re: basic learning path Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2019-03-18 12:58 +0000
      Re: basic learning path Graeme Geldenhuys <graemeg@example.net> - 2019-03-29 18:02 +0000
    Re: basic learning path Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2019-03-14 19:38 -0400
    Re: basic learning path Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2019-03-15 05:10 -0700

#38816 — basic learning path

Hi,

A little while ago I asked some questions about java.

It was said that I should learn an IDE.

I would like to learn all the ingredients that go into an IDE first.
Enough to code a robust program.

As I said before I know the basics of object oriented architecture,
design, and programming.

Are there some web tutorials that will walk me through the
ingredients?
-- 
dale - https://www.dalekelly.org/

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#38817

On 3/14/2019 3:46 PM, dale wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> A little while ago I asked some questions about java.
> 
> It was said that I should learn an IDE.

     IIRC the gist was that if you are a professional programmer in
an organization that uses Java, it follows that you *will* use an
IDE -- specifically, whatever IDE the organization has adopted.
You will also use idiosyncratic tweaks (perhaps) and conventions
(for sure) specific to that organization.

     If you're just beginning to learn Java itself, I suggest that
you avoid IDE's and concentrate entirely on Java.  IDE's are big,
intricate, powerful tools that come with their own non-negligible
learning curves, and someone new to both the IDE and to Java is
likely to encounter a good deal of confusion.  (A thread ongoing
at this moment deals with strategies for adjusting one's Java code
to silence an IDE's spurious complaints -- a beginner encountering
such a situation may well have a hard time distinguishing between
what Java requires and what some IDE wants.)

     Once your grasp of Java is fairly secure you should start
acquainting yourself with an IDE.  But I'd recommend avoiding the
IDE while your grasp is still shaky.

> I would like to learn all the ingredients that go into an IDE first.
> Enough to code a robust program.

     Sorry; I'm not sure what you mean by "the ingredients."

> As I said before I know the basics of object oriented architecture,
> design, and programming.
> 
> Are there some web tutorials that will walk me through the
> ingredients?

     There are certainly tutorials on the Java language, and there
are tutorials on how to use the popular IDE's, if that's what you
mean by "the ingredients."  GIYF on both accounts.

-- 
esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid
Six hundred seventy-eight days to go.

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#38820

On 2019-03-14 21:21, Eric Sosman wrote:
>     If you're just beginning to learn Java itself, I suggest that
> you avoid IDE's and concentrate entirely on Java.  IDE's are big,
> intricate, powerful tools that come with their own non-negligible
> learning curves, and someone new to both the IDE and to Java is
> likely to encounter a good deal of confusion.  

This is good advice. However, it is marred somewhat by the fact that
many of the learning resources on will encounter on the 'net will assume
usage of an IDE. Think of a tutorial about how to write a REST service.
Granted, if one is out to learn Java, a REST service is perhaps not the
thing one should start with, but on the other hand, the number of
tutorials about REST services (or similar highly complex tasks) is
likely to outweigh the number of tutorials just covering the basics - or
at least will quickly become the predominant findings, once the very
basics are out of the way.

Add to that goodies like smart completions and corrections, source code
and Javadoc browsing, and I'd say that going through an IDE might be
unavoidable. Just keep in mind that it will hugely increase the breadth
of the unknown.

-- 
DF.

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#38821

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 10:07:26 AM UTC-4, Daniele Futtorovic wrote:
> This is good advice. However, it is marred somewhat by the fact that
> many of the learning resources on will encounter on the 'net will assume
> usage of an IDE. Think of a tutorial about how to write a REST service.
> Granted, if one is out to learn Java, a REST service is perhaps not the
> thing one should start with, but on the other hand, the number of
> tutorials about REST services (or similar highly complex tasks) is
> likely to outweigh the number of tutorials just covering the basics - or
> at least will quickly become the predominant findings, once the very
> basics are out of the way.
> 
> Add to that goodies like smart completions and corrections, source code
> and Javadoc browsing, and I'd say that going through an IDE might be
> unavoidable. Just keep in mind that it will hugely increase the breadth
> of the unknown.
> 
> -- 
> DF.

It might help to learn coding without any IDE until you're actually familiar with the basic classes and can get code to compile without the assistance, even though the Oracle basic training path takes you into NetBeans.
Still, I finished college in 1996 so Java wasn't a thing, but I have seen a beginner say they use BlueJ. https://www.bluej.org/

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#38822

On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 05:03:10 -0700, Eric Douglas wrote:

> It might help to learn coding without any IDE until you're actually
> familiar with the basic classes and can get code to compile without the
> assistance, even though the Oracle basic training path takes you into
> NetBeans.
> Still, I finished college in 1996 so Java wasn't a thing, but I have
> seen a beginner say they use BlueJ. https://www.bluej.org/
>
Same here - except that even COBOL was barely a thing then - just various 
assemblers, FORTRAN and Algol 60.

Learning C showed me a good first step to learning almost any programming 
language: the idea of writing a tiny program that outputs "Hello World" 
somewhere that the coder can see. Doing this not only lets you write 
something simple, but also teaches you the basics of using its compiler 
and/or runtime system.


-- 
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

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#38832

On 14/03/2019 20:21, Eric Sosman wrote:
> If you're just beginning to learn Java itself, I suggest that
> you avoid IDE's and concentrate entirely on Java.

As I mentioned in the other group, the above is very good advice.  I
recently found this little tool call JPad (similar to JavaScript's
jsFiddle).

You can type in code snippets and hit F5 to run it. No need to type in
the boilerplate code like defining the class, defining the main() method
etc.

It also as built in functions to display data very easily. eg:
Dump(myHasSet) gives you a very nice table-like output.

A brilliant tool to collect code snippets or easily test a Java language
concept.


   http://jpad.io/

NOTE:
  It was implemented using JavaFX, so you would need that to run it.
  Oracle's Java 8 I believe does include it as standard.

Regards,
  Graeme

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#38818

On 3/14/2019 3:46 PM, dale wrote:
> A little while ago I asked some questions about java.
> 
> It was said that I should learn an IDE.

Learn to use an IDE to write your Java code.

> I would like to learn all the ingredients that go into an IDE first.
> Enough to code a robust program.
> 
> As I said before I know the basics of object oriented architecture,
> design, and programming.
> 
> Are there some web tutorials that will walk me through the
> ingredients?

If you want to code your own IDE, then I suggest getting 10 more
years of experience first.

If you just want to use an IDE then install it and start using
it. Every time you want to do something then just google for how
to do it the smartest way.

Arne

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#38819

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 3:46:38 PM UTC-4, dale wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> A little while ago I asked some questions about java.
> 
> It was said that I should learn an IDE.
> 
> I would like to learn all the ingredients that go into an IDE first.
> Enough to code a robust program.
> 
> As I said before I know the basics of object oriented architecture,
> design, and programming.
> 
> Are there some web tutorials that will walk me through the
> ingredients?
> -- 
> dale - https://www.dalekelly.org/

To learn to code from scratch start at the beginning.  There are many resources.  I like Oracle's.
https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/index.html

Their tutorial includes NetBeans, which I hear has been rewritten to be more efficient.  When I started on Java NetBeans was slow so I used Eclipse, now I know Eclipse pretty well and see no reason to change.

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