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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #20431 > unrolled thread

Need clarification on Object.equals.

Started by"plewto@gmail.com" <plewto@gmail.com>
First post2012-12-18 00:13 -0800
Last post2012-12-18 22:10 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 99 — 19 participants

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  Need clarification on Object.equals. "plewto@gmail.com" <plewto@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 00:13 -0800
    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-18 10:39 +0000
      Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-12-18 04:48 -0800
        Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-12-18 10:56 -0800
          Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. FredK <fred.l.kleinschmidt@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 08:13 -0800
            Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 11:22 -0500
              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2012-12-19 17:43 +0100
                Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 12:06 -0500
                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-19 09:39 -0800
                    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 13:24 -0500
              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. FredK <fred.l.kleinschmidt@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 11:23 -0800
            Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-19 08:25 -0800
      Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. plewto@gmail.com - 2012-12-18 10:56 -0800
        Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Jim Janney <jjanney@shell.xmission.com> - 2012-12-18 14:24 -0700
          Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-18 13:52 -0800
    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. markspace <-@.> - 2012-12-18 10:24 -0800
      Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. plewto@gmail.com - 2012-12-18 10:48 -0800
        Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2012-12-18 14:01 -0500
          Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. plewto@gmail.com - 2012-12-18 12:14 -0800
            Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. plewto@gmail.com - 2012-12-18 12:17 -0800
              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-18 22:16 -0500
                Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 10:20 +0000
                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-19 03:22 -0800
                    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 12:06 +0000
                    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 09:07 -0500
                      Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 09:09 -0500
                        Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 14:36 +0000
                          Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 09:42 -0500
                            Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 15:05 +0000
                              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2012-12-19 16:15 +0100
                                Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 15:47 +0000
                                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2012-12-19 16:57 +0100
                                    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 16:51 +0000
                                      Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2012-12-19 18:12 +0100
                                        Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 17:27 +0000
                                          Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-19 11:40 -0800
                              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 10:17 -0500
                                Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 15:40 +0000
                                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 10:50 -0500
                                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2012-12-19 17:01 +0100
                                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-19 10:22 -0800
                                    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 18:49 +0000
                                      Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-19 11:41 -0800
                                      Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-12-19 17:05 -0800
                                        Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-20 08:34 +0000
                                          Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-12-20 07:27 -0800
                                          Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-20 09:04 -0800
                                            Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-20 18:10 +0000
                                              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 11:08 -0800
                                                Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Peter Dunihơ <Np0eStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-12-21 07:50 +0000
                                                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-12-21 07:30 -0800
                                                    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-21 17:09 +0000
                                                      Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Leŵ <lewbl0ch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-23 00:54 +0000
                                                    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-21 12:23 -0500
                                                      Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-21 17:38 +0000
                                                    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhoj <arne@vajhoj.dk> - 2012-12-23 00:50 +0000
                                                Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-21 08:39 +0000
                                              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-20 13:39 -0800
                                                Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-21 08:34 +0000
                              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-12-19 09:22 -0600
                                Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 15:35 +0000
                                Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 10:56 -0500
                            Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 17:08 +0000
                          Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-12-19 08:58 -0600
                            Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 15:32 +0000
                              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-12-19 11:08 -0600
                                Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 17:32 +0000
                                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2012-12-19 18:41 +0100
                                    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 17:58 +0000
                                      Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 18:12 +0000
                                      Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-12-19 12:29 -0600
                                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-12-19 12:00 -0600
                                    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 18:06 +0000
                                      Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 13:13 -0500
                          Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-12-19 07:48 -0800
                            Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 16:48 +0000
                              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 12:09 -0500
                                Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 17:50 +0000
                                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 13:14 -0500
                                    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 18:59 +0000
                                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 13:16 -0500
                                    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 19:05 +0000
                                      Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-19 11:45 -0800
                                        Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 20:00 +0000
                              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-12-19 17:15 -0800
                                Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-20 09:22 +0000
                                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-12-20 07:36 -0800
                          Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-19 10:19 -0800
                            Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 19:16 +0000
                              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-19 11:48 -0800
                              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-12-19 14:12 -0600
                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 09:04 -0500
                  Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:40 -0800
                    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-20 09:30 +0000
            Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 12:52 -0800
            Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-12-19 09:27 -0600
              Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 10:44 -0500
        Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-18 22:11 -0500
    Re: Need clarification on Object.equals. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-18 22:10 -0500

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#20510

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2012-12-18 22:16 -0500
Message-ID<50d13174$0$283$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#20473
On 12/18/2012 3:17 PM, plewto@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:14:58 PM UTC-6, ple...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:01:51 PM UTC-6, David Lamb wrote:
>>> On 18/12/2012 1:48 PM, p...mail.com wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:24:44 PM UTC-6, markspace wrote:
>>>>> Show us the implementation of equals() for Node (and probably Gate too,
>>>>> that version of equals() could also be borked in the example you gave)
>>>>> and we'll point out the error.
>>>> It is complex because it is a large application. I can either post the several hundred lines
>>>> of source or the the 6 which adequately illustrates the point.
>>> There's likely not much people can do to help without more context. The
>>> "6 lines" don't adequately "illustrate the point" because from them
>>> alone nobody can say for sure what your problem is. Roedy's guess might
>>> be the best advice you're going to get.
>>
>> Yes I understand that. In fact, as I pointed out in a subsequent
>> post, none of my code defines equals, Node was however extending
>> AbstractSet which does redefine it. Really All I was looking for was a
>> general direction I might look and not to burden anyone with large
>> blocks of code. Node is 212 lines, Gate is 67, Monitor another 85, none
>> of which even once mentions the word "equals"
>>
>> My issue with Roedy's response was not the helpful suggestion to
>> lookat super classes but rather that it comes off as lecturing,
 >> and frankly rather condescending.
>
> Im sorry I meant markspace's responce not Roedy's

You had a problem.

A problem which is relative easy to troubleshoot with
some basic Java knowledge.

You posted the problem here with absolutely no information
to help identify the problem.

What do you expect?

We can not do anything but provide some guesses the presence of
an equals in a class or parent class - and explain some basics
about how equals work.

So stop whining and learn to post better questions.

Arne



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#20514

Fromlipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2012-12-19 10:20 +0000
Message-ID<-vKdnV0vgsl4CUzNnZ2dnUVZ8sOdnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to#20510
On 19/12/12 03:16, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/18/2012 3:17 PM, plewto@gmail.com wrote:

[snip]

>
> So stop whining and learn to post better question.

Now I'm not normally driven to using bad language but
What the f**k is wrong with you people.
This is Usenet, not your private little universe.

I've noticed this a lot in various newsgroups that I have been 
frequenting of late. People who are regular contributors get the idea 
that foo.bar.baz newsgroup is their private domain and anyone who has 
the temerity to post a question that doesn't meet their exacting 
standards get flamed and scolded and told to stop whining.

I get told off but I have the skin of a Rhino and none of you silly 
little jibes affect me or my life in any way whatsoever. Not everyone is 
so unaffected.

Please think before you flame.

Oh, and by the way, my flames are ALWAYS justified :-)

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#20515

FromPatricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org>
Date2012-12-19 03:22 -0800
Message-ID<K5idneDx64TWPkzNnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#20514
On 12/19/2012 2:20 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
...
> I've noticed this a lot in various newsgroups that I have been
> frequenting of late. People who are regular contributors get the idea
> that foo.bar.baz newsgroup is their private domain and anyone who has
> the temerity to post a question that doesn't meet their exacting
> standards get flamed and scolded and told to stop whining.
>
> I get told off but I have the skin of a Rhino and none of you silly
> little jibes affect me or my life in any way whatsoever. Not everyone is
> so unaffected.
...

I strongly agree with this, except I would have preferred "Some people
who are regular contributors ...".

Patricia

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#20519

Fromlipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2012-12-19 12:06 +0000
Message-ID<armdnYPIz7BdMEzNnZ2dnUVZ8gudnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to#20515
On 19/12/12 11:22, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> On 12/19/2012 2:20 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
> ...
>> I've noticed this a lot in various newsgroups that I have been
>> frequenting of late. People who are regular contributors get the idea
>> that foo.bar.baz newsgroup is their private domain and anyone who has
>> the temerity to post a question that doesn't meet their exacting
>> standards get flamed and scolded and told to stop whining.
>>
>> I get told off but I have the skin of a Rhino and none of you silly
>> little jibes affect me or my life in any way whatsoever. Not everyone is
>> so unaffected.
> ...
>
> I strongly agree with this, except I would have preferred "Some people
> who are regular contributors ...".

Concur, my mistake.

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#20523

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2012-12-19 09:07 -0500
Message-ID<50d1ca29$0$282$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#20515
On 12/19/2012 6:22 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> On 12/19/2012 2:20 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
> ...
>> I've noticed this a lot in various newsgroups that I have been
>> frequenting of late. People who are regular contributors get the idea
>> that foo.bar.baz newsgroup is their private domain and anyone who has
>> the temerity to post a question that doesn't meet their exacting
>> standards get flamed and scolded and told to stop whining.
>>
>> I get told off but I have the skin of a Rhino and none of you silly
>> little jibes affect me or my life in any way whatsoever. Not everyone is
>> so unaffected.
> ...
>
> I strongly agree with this, except I would have preferred "Some people
> who are regular contributors ...".

Do you agree that it is acceptable behavior calling a named
replier lecturing and condescending due to this post:

<quote>
This is a red flag.  The code should not be so complex that you can't 
show us what is really going on.  If it *is* too complex, then likely 
the issue is the complexity itself.

However, I think Roedy zeroed in on the most likely cause.  Your 
abstract class, Node (or some superclass), implements equals() 
*incorrectly* and is returning true when it should not.  Probably Node() 
should not implement equals() at all.

Show us the implementation of equals() for Node (and probably Gate too, 
that version of equals() could also be borked in the example you gave) 
and we'll point out the error.
<quote>

??

Arne

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#20524

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2012-12-19 09:09 -0500
Message-ID<50d1caa3$0$282$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#20523
On 12/19/2012 9:07 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/19/2012 6:22 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>> On 12/19/2012 2:20 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>> ...
>>> I've noticed this a lot in various newsgroups that I have been
>>> frequenting of late. People who are regular contributors get the idea
>>> that foo.bar.baz newsgroup is their private domain and anyone who has
>>> the temerity to post a question that doesn't meet their exacting
>>> standards get flamed and scolded and told to stop whining.
>>>
>>> I get told off but I have the skin of a Rhino and none of you silly
>>> little jibes affect me or my life in any way whatsoever. Not everyone is
>>> so unaffected.
>> ...
>>
>> I strongly agree with this, except I would have preferred "Some people
>> who are regular contributors ...".
>
> Do you agree that it is acceptable behavior calling a named
> replier lecturing and condescending due to this post:
>
> <quote>
> This is a red flag.  The code should not be so complex that you can't
> show us what is really going on.  If it *is* too complex, then likely
> the issue is the complexity itself.
>
> However, I think Roedy zeroed in on the most likely cause.  Your
> abstract class, Node (or some superclass), implements equals()
> *incorrectly* and is returning true when it should not.  Probably Node()
> should not implement equals() at all.
>
> Show us the implementation of equals() for Node (and probably Gate too,
> that version of equals() could also be borked in the example you gave)
> and we'll point out the error.
> <quote>
>
> ??

My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
stupid questions" card, then they do not have a "allowed
to insult others without being criticized for it" card.

Arne

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#20527

Fromlipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2012-12-19 14:36 +0000
Message-ID<cMqdnZgL74Z1TUzNnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to#20524
On 19/12/12 14:09, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/19/2012 9:07 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/19/2012 6:22 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>> On 12/19/2012 2:20 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>> ...

[snip]

>
> My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
> stupid questions" card,

Your arrogance is almost beyond belief. Listen to yourself
You really do think that you are in some way qualified to pass judgment
on what is a stupid question and what isn't.

This is USENET, you don't own it, you don't have the right to tell 
people what they can and cannot post, in fact you are just another 
faceless whiner among so many faceless whiners.

Maybe you and cadre of self appointed administrators should go and hang 
out on IRC, then you can ban people who you don't agree with ... massage 
your overinflated egos a bit more.

jeez, I haven't got this worked up in a while.

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#20528

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2012-12-19 09:42 -0500
Message-ID<50d1d243$0$286$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#20527
On 12/19/2012 9:36 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
> On 19/12/12 14:09, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/19/2012 9:07 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 12/19/2012 6:22 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>>> On 12/19/2012 2:20 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>>> ...
>
> [snip]
>
>>
>> My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
>> stupid questions" card, then they do not have a "allowed
>> to insult others without being criticized for it" card.

> Your arrogance is almost beyond belief. Listen to yourself
> You really do think that you are in some way qualified to pass judgment
> on what is a stupid question and what isn't.

Congratulations you completely missed the point.

> This is USENET, you don't own it, you don't have the right to tell
> people what they can and cannot post,

And you are trying to do what?

Arne

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#20530

Fromlipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2012-12-19 15:05 +0000
Message-ID<kuWdndhi7_1PSkzNnZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to#20528
On 19/12/12 14:42, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/19/2012 9:36 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>> On 19/12/12 14:09, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 12/19/2012 9:07 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 12/19/2012 6:22 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>>>> On 12/19/2012 2:20 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>
>>> My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
>>> stupid questions" card, then they do not have a "allowed
>>> to insult others without being criticized for it" card.
>
>> Your arrogance is almost beyond belief. Listen to yourself
>> You really do think that you are in some way qualified to pass judgment
>> on what is a stupid question and what isn't.
>
> Congratulations you completely missed the point.

No I didn't and I quote

"My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
stupid questions" card"

Who 'allows' them to post stupid questions.
You ?

Who decides who is a newbie
You ?

Who decides it is a stupid question
You ?

And before you use the 'community' card

Who made you the spokesperson
You ?

Well ?

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#20531

FromLars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com>
Date2012-12-19 16:15 +0100
Message-ID<50D1D9FD.4070202@telia.com>
In reply to#20530
2012-12-19 16:05, lipska the kat skrev:
> On 19/12/12 14:42, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/19/2012 9:36 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>> On 19/12/12 14:09, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 12/19/2012 9:07 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> On 12/19/2012 6:22 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/19/2012 2:20 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
>>>> stupid questions" card, then they do not have a "allowed
>>>> to insult others without being criticized for it" card.
>>
>>> Your arrogance is almost beyond belief. Listen to yourself
>>> You really do think that you are in some way qualified to pass judgment
>>> on what is a stupid question and what isn't.
>>
>> Congratulations you completely missed the point.
> 
> No I didn't and I quote
> 
> "My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
> stupid questions" card"
> 
> Who 'allows' them to post stupid questions.
> You ?
> 
> Who decides who is a newbie
> You ?
> 
> Who decides it is a stupid question
> You ?
> 
> And before you use the 'community' card
> 
> Who made you the spokesperson
> You ?
> 
> Well ?

You're overreacting, in a big way (and there should be no space before
?). You completely missed the spirit (and point) of Arne's response(s).



-- 
Lars Enderin

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#20539

Fromlipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2012-12-19 15:47 +0000
Message-ID<8NGdnZJoQO_qfEzNnZ2dnUVZ8mmdnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to#20531
On 19/12/12 15:15, Lars Enderin wrote:
> 2012-12-19 16:05, lipska the kat skrev:
>> On 19/12/12 14:42, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 12/19/2012 9:36 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>>> On 19/12/12 14:09, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> On 12/19/2012 9:07 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/19/2012 6:22 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/19/2012 2:20 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
>>>>> stupid questions" card, then they do not have a "allowed
>>>>> to insult others without being criticized for it" card.
>>>
>>>> Your arrogance is almost beyond belief. Listen to yourself
>>>> You really do think that you are in some way qualified to pass judgment
>>>> on what is a stupid question and what isn't.
>>>
>>> Congratulations you completely missed the point.
>>
>> No I didn't and I quote
>>
>> "My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
>> stupid questions" card"
>>
>> Who 'allows' them to post stupid questions.
>> You ?
>>
>> Who decides who is a newbie
>> You ?
>>
>> Who decides it is a stupid question
>> You ?
>>
>> And before you use the 'community' card
>>
>> Who made you the spokesperson
>> You ?
>>
>> Well ?
>
> You're overreacting, in a big way (and there should be no space before
> ?). You completely missed the spirit (and point) of Arne's response(s).

This is Usenet, if you don't like it, go somewhere else. I do like it so 
I'm staying and I will continue however futile it may be to stand up 
against the ludicrous pomposity and arrogance I see here. Get used to it.

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#20543

FromLars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com>
Date2012-12-19 16:57 +0100
Message-ID<50D1E3F3.5050703@telia.com>
In reply to#20539
2012-12-19 16:47, lipska the kat skrev:
> On 19/12/12 15:15, Lars Enderin wrote:
>> You're overreacting, in a big way (and there should be no space before
>> ?). You completely missed the spirit (and point) of Arne's response(s).
> 
> This is Usenet, if you don't like it, go somewhere else. I do like it so
> I'm staying and I will continue however futile it may be to stand up
> against the ludicrous pomposity and arrogance I see here. Get used to it.

Did I imply that I don't like Usenet? You seem to misunderstand a lot.
And I don't see much pomposity and arrogance here. I've been on Usenet
for 25 years or more.

-- 
Lars Enderin

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#20550

Fromlipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2012-12-19 16:51 +0000
Message-ID<WvidnYtFWss3bUzNnZ2dnUVZ8madnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to#20543
On 19/12/12 15:57, Lars Enderin wrote:
> 2012-12-19 16:47, lipska the kat skrev:
>> On 19/12/12 15:15, Lars Enderin wrote:
>>> You're overreacting, in a big way (and there should be no space before
>>> ?). You completely missed the spirit (and point) of Arne's response(s).
>>
>> This is Usenet, if you don't like it, go somewhere else. I do like it so
>> I'm staying and I will continue however futile it may be to stand up
>> against the ludicrous pomposity and arrogance I see here. Get used to it.
>
> Did I imply that I don't like Usenet? You seem to misunderstand a lot.
> And I don't see much pomposity and arrogance here. I've been on Usenet
> for 25 years or more.

Well you wouldn't I guess

I have a question

Why do you (collectively) feel the need to chastise someone for 
behaviour that you decide is inappropriate for this group when that 
behaviour is not directed at you. I expand on this in a reply to Arne 
elsewhere.

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#20555

FromLars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com>
Date2012-12-19 18:12 +0100
Message-ID<50D1F57C.4090901@telia.com>
In reply to#20550
2012-12-19 17:51, lipska the kat skrev:
> On 19/12/12 15:57, Lars Enderin wrote:
>> 2012-12-19 16:47, lipska the kat skrev:
>>> On 19/12/12 15:15, Lars Enderin wrote:
>>>> You're overreacting, in a big way (and there should be no space before
>>>> ?). You completely missed the spirit (and point) of Arne's response(s).
>>>
>>> This is Usenet, if you don't like it, go somewhere else. I do like it so
>>> I'm staying and I will continue however futile it may be to stand up
>>> against the ludicrous pomposity and arrogance I see here. Get used to
>>> it.
>>
>> Did I imply that I don't like Usenet? You seem to misunderstand a lot.
>> And I don't see much pomposity and arrogance here. I've been on Usenet
>> for 25 years or more.
> 
> Well you wouldn't I guess
> 
> I have a question
> 
> Why do you (collectively) feel the need to chastise someone for
> behaviour that you decide is inappropriate for this group when that
> behaviour is not directed at you. I expand on this in a reply to Arne
> elsewhere.

Why don't you like it when somebody stands up for somebody else? It's
not abnormal behaviour. And in this case Arne may have felt that the
OP's reply was (also) directed at him. But I am not allowed to answer
for Arne, right?

-- 
Lars Enderin

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#20556

Fromlipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2012-12-19 17:27 +0000
Message-ID<sfOdnW1z1PZuZUzNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to#20555
On 19/12/12 17:12, Lars Enderin wrote:
> 2012-12-19 17:51, lipska the kat skrev:
>> On 19/12/12 15:57, Lars Enderin wrote:

>
> Why don't you like it when somebody stands up for somebody else? It's
> not abnormal behaviour. And in this case Arne may have felt that the
> OP's reply was (also) directed at him. But I am not allowed to answer
> for Arne, right?

Well in the real world nobody answers for me except me. I stand and fall 
by my own decisions and am quite prepared to take the consequences of my 
actions however harsh those consequences may be.

However we are not in the real world are we. We are in a world where 
it's easy to gang up on someone who doesn't fit your idea of 
'acceptable' and escape without any of the consequences that might 
accrue were you to exhibit that behaviour with a flesh and blood person.

I don't have an issue with standing up for your friends when it is 
warrented however I do have an issue with the aggressive pack like 
rounding on some unfortunate individual who steps on your delicate 
little toes.

Witness the forthporing of vitriol and invective from you and others in 
this group to my 'frank and lively exchange of views' with Arne although 
what the f**k it has got to do with you is anyones guess.

Anyway, this has been an exhilarating and enjoyable exchange and you can 
be sure that I will speak up in future when and if I see it happening again.

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#20588

FromGene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net>
Date2012-12-19 11:40 -0800
Message-ID<4v54d8hip10qsph37qanub263gvntna20q@4ax.com>
In reply to#20556
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 17:27:12 +0000, lipska the kat
<lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 19/12/12 17:12, Lars Enderin wrote:
>> 2012-12-19 17:51, lipska the kat skrev:
>>> On 19/12/12 15:57, Lars Enderin wrote:
>
>>
>> Why don't you like it when somebody stands up for somebody else? It's
>> not abnormal behaviour. And in this case Arne may have felt that the
>> OP's reply was (also) directed at him. But I am not allowed to answer
>> for Arne, right?
>
>Well in the real world nobody answers for me except me. I stand and fall 
>by my own decisions and am quite prepared to take the consequences of my 
>actions however harsh those consequences may be.

     Not everyone has to do that.

>However we are not in the real world are we. We are in a world where 

     Yes, we are.  The idea that the Net is not part of the real world
is inane.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#20532

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2012-12-19 10:17 -0500
Message-ID<50d1da91$0$282$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#20530
On 12/19/2012 10:05 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
> On 19/12/12 14:42, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/19/2012 9:36 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>> On 19/12/12 14:09, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 12/19/2012 9:07 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> On 12/19/2012 6:22 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/19/2012 2:20 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
>>>> stupid questions" card, then they do not have a "allowed
>>>> to insult others without being criticized for it" card.
>>
>>> Your arrogance is almost beyond belief. Listen to yourself
>>> You really do think that you are in some way qualified to pass judgment
>>> on what is a stupid question and what isn't.
>>
>> Congratulations you completely missed the point.
>
> No I didn't and I quote
>
> "My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
> stupid questions" card"
>
> Who 'allows' them to post stupid questions.
> You ?
>
> Who decides who is a newbie
> You ?
>
> Who decides it is a stupid question
> You ?
>
> And before you use the 'community' card
>
> Who made you the spokesperson
> You ?
>
> Well ?

Yes - you missed the point, but let me try to explain again.

My point is that I am not objecting to questions whether
I consider them stupid or not (or whether I consider the
person a newbie or not) - I am objecting to the
person asking the question insulting those that try to help.

Arne

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#20537

Fromlipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2012-12-19 15:40 +0000
Message-ID<oOidneXJfN2XfUzNnZ2dnUVZ8qOdnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to#20532
On 19/12/12 15:17, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/19/2012 10:05 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>> On 19/12/12 14:42, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 12/19/2012 9:36 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>>> On 19/12/12 14:09, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> On 12/19/2012 9:07 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/19/2012 6:22 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/19/2012 2:20 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
>>>>> stupid questions" card, then they do not have a "allowed
>>>>> to insult others without being criticized for it" card.
>>>
>>>> Your arrogance is almost beyond belief. Listen to yourself
>>>> You really do think that you are in some way qualified to pass judgment
>>>> on what is a stupid question and what isn't.
>>>
>>> Congratulations you completely missed the point.
>>
>> No I didn't and I quote
>>
>> "My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
>> stupid questions" card"
>>
>> Who 'allows' them to post stupid questions.
>> You ?
>>
>> Who decides who is a newbie
>> You ?
>>
>> Who decides it is a stupid question
>> You ?
>>
>> And before you use the 'community' card
>>
>> Who made you the spokesperson
>> You ?
>>
>> Well ?
>
> Yes - you missed the point, but let me try to explain again.
>
> My point is that I am not objecting to questions whether
> I consider them stupid or not (or whether I consider the
> person a newbie or not) - I am objecting to the
> person asking the question insulting those that try to help.

Well you still don't get it do you
I don't defend insulting behavior but sometimes flesh and blood can 
stand just so much, lets try again. One question at a time.

You said

"My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
stupid questions" card"

Who 'allows' them to post stupid questions.

Do you understand the question

It's a very simple question, really it is. who is it ?
I really do want to know.

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#20541

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2012-12-19 10:50 -0500
Message-ID<50d1e260$0$285$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#20537
On 12/19/2012 10:40 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
> On 19/12/12 15:17, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/19/2012 10:05 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>> On 19/12/12 14:42, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 12/19/2012 9:36 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>>>> On 19/12/12 14:09, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/19/2012 9:07 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/19/2012 6:22 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12/19/2012 2:20 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
>>>>>> stupid questions" card, then they do not have a "allowed
>>>>>> to insult others without being criticized for it" card.
>>>>
>>>>> Your arrogance is almost beyond belief. Listen to yourself
>>>>> You really do think that you are in some way qualified to pass
>>>>> judgment
>>>>> on what is a stupid question and what isn't.
>>>>
>>>> Congratulations you completely missed the point.
>>>
>>> No I didn't and I quote
>>>
>>> "My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
>>> stupid questions" card"
>>>
>>> Who 'allows' them to post stupid questions.
>>> You ?
>>>
>>> Who decides who is a newbie
>>> You ?
>>>
>>> Who decides it is a stupid question
>>> You ?
>>>
>>> And before you use the 'community' card
>>>
>>> Who made you the spokesperson
>>> You ?
>>>
>>> Well ?
>>
>> Yes - you missed the point, but let me try to explain again.
>>
>> My point is that I am not objecting to questions whether
>> I consider them stupid or not (or whether I consider the
>> person a newbie or not) - I am objecting to the
>> person asking the question insulting those that try to help.
>
> Well you still don't get it do you
> I don't defend insulting behavior

Then why do you complain about me pointing out insulting behavior?

Arne

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#20544

FromLars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com>
Date2012-12-19 17:01 +0100
Message-ID<50D1E4D7.6020205@telia.com>
In reply to#20537
2012-12-19 16:40, lipska the kat skrev:
> On 19/12/12 15:17, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/19/2012 10:05 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>> On 19/12/12 14:42, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 12/19/2012 9:36 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>>>> On 19/12/12 14:09, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/19/2012 9:07 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/19/2012 6:22 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12/19/2012 2:20 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
>>>>>> stupid questions" card, then they do not have a "allowed
>>>>>> to insult others without being criticized for it" card.
>>>>
>>>>> Your arrogance is almost beyond belief. Listen to yourself
>>>>> You really do think that you are in some way qualified to pass
>>>>> judgment
>>>>> on what is a stupid question and what isn't.
>>>>
>>>> Congratulations you completely missed the point.
>>>
>>> No I didn't and I quote
>>>
>>> "My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
>>> stupid questions" card"
>>>
>>> Who 'allows' them to post stupid questions.
>>> You ?
>>>
>>> Who decides who is a newbie
>>> You ?
>>>
>>> Who decides it is a stupid question
>>> You ?
>>>
>>> And before you use the 'community' card
>>>
>>> Who made you the spokesperson
>>> You ?
>>>
>>> Well ?
>>
>> Yes - you missed the point, but let me try to explain again.
>>
>> My point is that I am not objecting to questions whether
>> I consider them stupid or not (or whether I consider the
>> person a newbie or not) - I am objecting to the
>> person asking the question insulting those that try to help.
> 
> Well you still don't get it do you
> I don't defend insulting behavior but sometimes flesh and blood can
> stand just so much, lets try again. One question at a time.
> 
> You said
> 
> "My point is that while newbies do have a "allowed to post
> stupid questions" card"
> 
> Who 'allows' them to post stupid questions.
> 
> Do you understand the question
> 
> It's a very simple question, really it is. who is it ?
> I really do want to know.

You are takings things too literally. Makes me think of Asperger's
syndrome and related.

-- 
Lars Enderin

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