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Java claims WORA

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  Java claims WORA owais <awais4you@gmail.com> - 2012-06-20 08:33 -0700
    Re: Java claims WORA Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-20 09:21 -0700
    Re: Java claims WORA Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-20 09:46 -0700
    Re: Java claims WORA Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-20 10:47 -0700
      Re: Java claims WORA "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-24 16:56 -0700
    Re: Java claims WORA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-20 17:02 -0400
      Re: Java claims WORA glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-20 21:45 +0000
        Re: Java claims WORA Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-06-20 22:25 +0000
          Re: Java claims WORA Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-21 00:57 +0200
            Re: Java claims WORA Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-20 16:46 -0700
              Re: Java claims WORA David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2012-06-20 19:56 -0400
        Re: Java claims WORA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-20 19:16 -0400
          Re: Java claims WORA "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-24 16:58 -0700
    Re: Java claims WORA Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-20 16:43 -0700
      Re: Java claims WORA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-20 20:30 -0400
      Re: Java claims WORA Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-20 18:37 -0700
        Re: Java claims WORA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-20 21:47 -0400
    Re: Java claims WORA Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-06-22 19:18 +0200
      Re: Java claims WORA "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-22 15:59 -0400
        Re: Java claims WORA Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-24 04:43 -0700
          Re: Java claims WORA "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-24 18:51 -0400
            Re: Java claims WORA Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-06-24 23:27 -0700
              Re: Java claims WORA "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-26 15:43 -0400
      Re: Java claims WORA Jim Janney <jjanney@shell.xmission.com> - 2012-06-22 18:23 -0600
    Re: Java claims WORA Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-06-22 21:40 +0200
      Re: Java claims WORA David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2012-06-25 09:57 -0400
        Re: Java claims WORA Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-06-25 20:34 +0200
          Re: Java claims WORA Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-06-25 20:44 +0200

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#15451 — Java claims WORA

Java claims WORA (write once and run anywhere). Do you agree with this statement that all java programs can be run anywhere (all platforms)? Can you identify a scenario where this claim may not hold true?

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#15453

On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 5:33:02 PM UTC+2, owais wrote:
> Java claims WORA (write once and run anywhere). Do you agree with this statement that all java programs can be run anywhere (all platforms)? Can you identify a scenario where this claim may not hold true?

I find the question quite strange.  Something tells me that you are asking a homework question...  Oh, I see:
http://vusols.blogspot.de/

Please do your own research.

Cheers

robert

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#15454

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:33:02 -0700 (PDT), owais <awais4you@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Java claims WORA (write once and run anywhere). Do you agree with this
 statement that all java programs can be run anywhere (all platforms)?
Can you identify a scenario where this claim may not hold true?

     Since it is your homework, how about you do it?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#15456

On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:33:02 AM UTC-7, owais wrote:
> Java claims WORA (write once and run anywhere). Do you agree with this statement that all java programs can be run anywhere (all platforms)? Can you identify a scenario where this claim may not hold true?

It is spelled "Java".

I am not aware of a Java port to the PDP-8.

-- 
Lew

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#15570

"Lew" <lewbloch@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1d5c87aa-624d-4397-9781-927a50749404@googlegroups.com...
> On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:33:02 AM UTC-7, owais wrote:
>> Java claims WORA (write once and run anywhere). Do you agree with this 
>> statement that all java programs can be run anywhere (all platforms)? Can 
>> you identify a scenario where this claim may not hold true?
>
> It is spelled "Java".
>
> I am not aware of a Java port to the PDP-8.
>

I don't see why not.  A 12-bit address space would make writing a garbage 
collector a snap. 

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#15460

On 6/20/2012 11:33 AM, owais wrote:
> Java claims WORA (write once and run anywhere). Do you agree with this statement that all java programs can be run anywhere (all platforms)? Can you identify a scenario where this claim may not hold true?

Java programs written and build for a specific Java version will run
where that Java version or is available (and typical also if a newer
version is available).

Java is available for all the most common platforms.

Arne

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#15461

Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
> On 6/20/2012 11:33 AM, owais wrote:
>> Java claims WORA (write once and run anywhere). 
> Do you agree with this statement
(snip)

> Java programs written and build for a specific Java version will run
> where that Java version or is available (and typical also if a newer
> version is available).

> Java is available for all the most common platforms.

So common, but not all. 

Is there Java for VAX/VMS? 
As I understand it, there are web browsers that run on VMS.

Java requires IEEE floating point, so it tends not to be available
on hosts that have a different floating point format.

Most likely never for, for example, the IBM 7090. (Which would
be batch mode, and not browser/applet, but still.)

-- glen

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#15462

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:45:00 +0000, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:

> Most likely never for, for example, the IBM 7090. (Which would be batch
> mode, and not browser/applet, but still.)
>
More to the point, are any still running?
 




-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#15463

On 21.06.2012 00:25, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:45:00 +0000, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
>
>> Most likely never for, for example, the IBM 7090. (Which would be batch
>> mode, and not browser/applet, but still.)
>>
> More to the point, are any still running?

Probably: there's nobody around any more who knows how to switch them off...

	robert

-- 
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

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#15469

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:57:30 +0200, Robert Klemme
<shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :

>Probably: there's nobody around any more who knows how to switch them off..

Where they the ones with the red mushroom you either pulled or pushed
for emergency power off or was that the 360?
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
If you look in a computer programmer's freezer you will find all 
kinds of containers, but none of them labeled.  They do the same thing 
creating files without labeling the encoding.  You are just supposed to 
know.  Ditto with the MIME type, the separator and comment delimiters and 
column names in CSV files.  Ditto with the endian convention.  Imagine how 
much more civilised life would have been if Martha Stewart were the first 
programmer. 

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#15470

On 20/06/2012 7:46 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:57:30 +0200, Robert Klemme
> <shortcutter@googlemail.com>  wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
> someone who said :
>
>> Probably: there's nobody around any more who knows how to switch them off..
>
> Where they the ones with the red mushroom you either pulled or pushed
> for emergency power off or was that the 360?

360. You had to call IBM to unlatch the emergency-off and figure out how 
many components blew out from the instant power cut.

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#15464

On 6/20/2012 5:45 PM, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>> On 6/20/2012 11:33 AM, owais wrote:
>>> Java claims WORA (write once and run anywhere).
>> Do you agree with this statement
> (snip)
>
>> Java programs written and build for a specific Java version will run
>> where that Java version or is available (and typical also if a newer
>> version is available).
>
>> Java is available for all the most common platforms.
>
> So common, but not all.

Yep.

> Is there Java for VAX/VMS?
> As I understand it, there are web browsers that run on VMS.

VMS Alpha and VMS Itanium: yes

VMS VAX: no

But it is 20 years since Alpha came out.

> Java requires IEEE floating point, so it tends not to be available
> on hosts that have a different floating point format.

That is supposed to be the reason why VAX did not get Java.

But they could have emulated IEEE FP if they wanted to.

Arne

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#15571

"Arne Vajhøj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message 
news:4fe259da$0$285$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
> On 6/20/2012 5:45 PM, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
>
>> Java requires IEEE floating point, so it tends not to be available
>> on hosts that have a different floating point format.
>
> That is supposed to be the reason why VAX did not get Java.
>
> But they could have emulated IEEE FP if they wanted to.

They had 4 different floating point formats, what's one more? :-) 

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#15468

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:33:02 -0700 (PDT), owais <awais4you@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>Java claims WORA (write once and run anywhere). 
>Do you agree with this statement that all java programs 
>can be run anywhere (all platforms)? Can you identify a 
>scenario where this claim may not hold true?

The caveats are:

1. If your code is written for Java 1,7 you must have a Java 1.7+
runtime.  It might not be available for a given platform.

2. a given JVM might have a bug that stops some particular program
from working.

3. If you use JNI, you must have the appropriate native code for the
given platform.

4. Java does requires the programmer to handle the WORA stuff
explicitly for file names and line separators and encodings.  Simple
programs will work fine, but more complex ones must be aware.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
If you look in a computer programmer's freezer you will find all 
kinds of containers, but none of them labeled.  They do the same thing 
creating files without labeling the encoding.  You are just supposed to 
know.  Ditto with the MIME type, the separator and comment delimiters and 
column names in CSV files.  Ditto with the endian convention.  Imagine how 
much more civilised life would have been if Martha Stewart were the first 
programmer. 

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#15473

On 6/20/2012 7:43 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> 4. Java does requires the programmer to handle the WORA stuff
> explicitly for file names and line separators and encodings.  Simple
> programs will work fine, but more complex ones must be aware.

It is not quite clear to me what "handle the WORA stuff
explicitly" really means.

But the Java API provides classes and methods that allow
for platform independent handling of those.

So by following good practice one should be OK.

Arne

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#15479

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:43:21 -0700, Roedy Green
<see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :

>The caveats are:

for a more detailed answer see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/wora.html
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
If you look in a computer programmer's freezer you will find all 
kinds of containers, but none of them labeled.  They do the same thing 
creating files without labeling the encoding.  You are just supposed to 
know.  Ditto with the MIME type, the separator and comment delimiters and 
column names in CSV files.  Ditto with the endian convention.  Imagine how 
much more civilised life would have been if Martha Stewart were the first 
programmer. 

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#15480

On 6/20/2012 9:37 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:43:21 -0700, Roedy Green
> <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
> someone who said :
>
>> The caveats are:
>
> for a more detailed answer see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/wora.html

More detailed but very misleading.

#Java works with platform-specific \r \n line-ending conventions. You 
have the lineSeparator to help, but your code has to deal with \r\n 
(Windows), \n (Unix) and \r (Mac) conventions.

You should be using readLine and println etc. not doing binary
IO with line.separator!

#Internet Explorer is so far out, they can’t even legally call it Java.

I can not see why SUN/Oracle Java used by IE can not be called Java.

#On some platforms the elements of the classpath are separated by 
semicolons, and others by colons. There was no need for this variety, 
since classpath is a purely Java invention.

Classpath is a Java thingy but path separators are not.

Arne

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#15518

Am 20.06.2012 17:33, schrieb owais:
> Java claims WORA (write once and run anywhere). Do you agree with this statement that all java programs can be run anywhere (all platforms)? Can you identify a scenario where this claim may not hold true?

Java is more like WOTA for me - write once, test everywhere. It's quite 
acceptable for simple programs, but as soon as it gets more complex than 
this, there are subtle differences between Java installations on Windows 
and Linux, and from version to version. I've seen cases where Java does 
not size windows correctly on one version, but not on others for reasons 
that are not clear to me, where input focus handling was slightly 
different and inconsistent, where refresh handling and the order of 
requests is slightly different, where window placement may or may not 
work... In theory, Java is very nice for running everywhere, but you 
still need to test and need to tweak a bit to get it working consistently.

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#15524

In article <js29dm$1fo$1@news.belwue.de>,
 Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> wrote:

> Am 20.06.2012 17:33, schrieb owais:
> > Java claims WORA (write once and run anywhere). Do you agree with 
> > this statement that all java programs can be run anywhere (all 
> > platforms)? Can you identify a scenario where this claim may not 
> > hold true?
> 
> Java is more like WOTA for me - write once, test everywhere. It's 
> quite acceptable for simple programs, but as soon as it gets more 
> complex than this, there are subtle differences between Java 
> installations on Windows and Linux, and from version to version. I've 
> seen cases where Java does not size windows correctly on one version, 
> but not on others for reasons that are not clear to me, where input 
> focus handling was slightly different and inconsistent, where refresh 
> handling and the order of requests is slightly different, where 
> window placement may or may not work... In theory, Java is very nice 
> for running everywhere, but you still need to test and need to tweak 
> a bit to get it working consistently.

I'll second the need for testing, but I've found that using layouts 
properly and respecting a component's preferred size greatly reduces 
the number of cross-platform problems. There's a recent example here:

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.java.programmer/BbU4GjYuD6E/H-QLV3BRmmsJ>

-- 
John B. Matthews
trashgod at gmail dot com
<http://sites.google.com/site/drjohnbmatthews>

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#15554

On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:59:43 -0400, "John B. Matthews"
<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>I'll second the need for testing, but I've found that using layouts 
>properly and respecting a component's preferred size greatly reduces 
>the number of cross-platform problems. There's a recent example here:

one of the big problems is when you substitute a font, the characters
are not the same size.  I would like to normalize fonts to their true
size so that when you substitute fonts, the actual real estate
consumed varies only a little.

Another would be a guaranteed to render all glyphs, even if it means
substituting from some other font.  Failing that at telling the truth.
Java claims to render a glyph when all it does in render some generic
glyph.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
Computers are machines that do exactly what you tell them,
but they still can surprise you with the results.
~ Dr. Richard Dawkins 1941-03-26

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