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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #18580 > unrolled thread
| Started by | clusardi2k@aol.com |
|---|---|
| First post | 2012-09-07 05:15 -0700 |
| Last post | 2012-09-07 22:26 -0700 |
| Articles | 18 on this page of 38 — 9 participants |
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How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-07 05:15 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-09-07 12:24 +0000
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-09-07 09:54 -0400
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-13 06:40 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-09-13 17:20 +0000
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-13 11:00 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-09-13 15:36 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-09-13 20:34 -0400
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2012-09-07 16:17 +0100
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-09-07 11:11 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-09-07 21:28 -0400
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-10 23:29 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-09-10 23:49 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-11 05:12 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) markspace <-@.> - 2012-09-11 09:25 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-09-11 11:08 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) markspace <-@.> - 2012-09-11 12:45 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-12 07:24 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-12 08:00 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) markspace <-@.> - 2012-09-12 08:21 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-12 08:58 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-12 09:02 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) markspace <-@.> - 2012-09-12 09:15 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-12 09:44 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-12 10:24 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-09-12 10:19 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-12 11:10 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-12 11:26 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-12 11:47 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-09-12 12:56 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-09-12 12:58 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-09-12 20:45 -0400
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-12 23:28 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-09-12 20:43 -0400
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2012-09-17 10:10 +0100
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) clusardi2k@aol.com - 2012-09-11 16:21 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) markspace <-@.> - 2012-09-11 17:33 -0700
Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-09-07 22:26 -0700
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| From | clusardi2k@aol.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 08:58 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <784b7374-dd6e-4a35-9f71-07e38e63a972@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18672 |
>On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:21:45 AM UTC-4, markspace wrote:
>> On 9/12/2012 8:00 AM, ... wrote:
>> I added the path to all my dot jars into an environment variable
>> (user varianble and not a system variable) called classpath and was
>> unable to run the project. I mean nothing happened.
>
> Learn to debug. Add some print statements so you can trace the execution of
> your program. Attach a debugger. If nothing happens, that's because your app
> did nothing. Java will print an error message if it finds a problem.
I added the following as the first executable statement (etc) in the project:
System.out.println("Hello 1");
I then ran the project on my friend's PC using the Command Prompt and the command: java testing.jar
I received the error message:
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: testing/jar
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: testing.jar
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
Could not find the main class: testing.jar. Program will exit.
Thank you,
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| From | clusardi2k@aol.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 09:02 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <e24da8d7-7992-4137-888c-9245d4b38de5@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18673 |
On my own PC under NetBeans, I have no problem. I see the following from five print statements! init: Deleting: C:\testing\build\built-jar.properties deps-jar: Updating property file: C:\testing\build\built-jar.properties files are up to date compile: run: Hello 1 Hello 2 Hello 3 Hello 4 Hello 5 BUILD SUCCESSFUL (total time: 19 seconds) Thank you,
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| From | markspace <-@.> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 09:15 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <k2qcfo$aq1$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #18674 |
On 9/12/2012 9:02 AM, clusardi2k@aol.com wrote: > On my own PC under NetBeans, I have no problem. I see the following from five print statements! Job one when debugging is to reproduce the problem. Where is the command line that works? I saw you list your command line in the previous post, but the one you used here is missing. > > init: > Deleting: C:\testing\build\built-jar.properties > deps-jar: > Updating property file: C:\testing\build\built-jar.properties > files are up to date > compile: > run: > Hello 1 > Hello 2 > Hello 3 > Hello 4 > Hello 5 > BUILD SUCCESSFUL (total time: 19 seconds) > > Thank you, >
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| From | clusardi2k@aol.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 09:44 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d186ef46-ab0c-441e-98f2-20a5a4914d00@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18675 |
> Job one when debugging is to reproduce the problem. Where is the > command line that works? I saw you list your command line in the > previous post, but the one you used here is missing. I setup my PC's "Classpath" environment variable to point to the two dot jar files. Then on my PC at the Command Prompt, with the below command I get the following error message. java testing.jar Error: Could not find or load the main class testing.jar. Thank you,
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| From | clusardi2k@aol.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 10:24 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <3456e60d-3125-49e4-95f7-a719ba199a7b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18678 |
I've still looking at the article below: Packaging and Deploying Desktop Java Applications ... Troubleshooting JAR File Associations http://netbeans.org/kb/articles/javase-deploy.html#troubleshooting Thanks,
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| From | Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 10:19 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <35098d0e-a381-4113-9cbf-83a441f6049d@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18673 |
(unknown) wrote:
> System.out.println("Hello 1");
>
> I then ran the project on my friend's PC using the Command Prompt and the command: java testing.jar
This command tells Java to run a 'main()' method from the class 'testing.jar',
which would reside in a class file relative to a classpath element "testing/jar.class".
This class does not exist. Therefore
> I received the error message:
>
> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: testing/jar
Exactly so.
> Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: testing.jar
> ...
> Could not find the main class: testing.jar. Program will exit.
Solution:
Don't tell Java to run a nonexistent class.
You need to read the tutorial markspace linked:
> Classpath in a jarfile:
>
> <http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/deployment/jar/downman.html>
Pay attention.
--
Lew
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| From | clusardi2k@aol.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 11:10 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d2b54b5e-3af0-45f4-a127-b98782b2cfd5@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18680 |
On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:19:08 PM UTC-4, Lew wrote: >> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: testing/jar Exactly >> so. Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: testing.jar ... Could not >> find the main class: testing.jar. Program will exit. Solution: Don't tell Java >> to run a nonexistent class. You need to read the tutorial markspace linked: >> Classpath in a jarfile: >> <http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/deployment/jar/downman.html> About this process, I have two dot jar files in my project. I guess I put both of them in the Manifest.txt file. Question 1: Do I separate these two jar file names with a comma? That link, basically, says to use the command: jar cfm NEW.jar Manifest.txt MyPackage/*.class But executing that command, I get the error message: MyPackage\*.class : no such file or directory. So, Question 2: What do I put in place of "MyPackage/*.class". The NetBeans build process creates the folder (C:\testing\build\classes\) which contains about 40 dot .class files. Thanks,
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| From | clusardi2k@aol.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 11:26 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6086fb96-3c4c-43ab-8b3e-8ce531b9ea0c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18684 |
Executing the command: jar cfm Install_Test.jar Manifest.txt C:\testing\build\classes\testing\*.class does produce a large Install_Test.jar file, but with the below command, I get the associated error message. java Install_Test.jar Error: Could not find or load main class Install_Test.jar Thanks,
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| From | clusardi2k@aol.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 11:47 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <526417fd-2337-406d-8dd1-9d78f5ae30e2@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18685 |
There are many other classes in the testing project under another folder in C:\testing\build\classes\, but none of them have a main method. I did not mention them on the "jar cfm ..." command line. The only main method in the testing project is in a package called testing. The testing package is in one of the two dot jar files mentioned in the Manifest.txt file. I guess there isn't suppose to be a comma between the dot jar files mentioned in the Manifest.txt file. Thank you,
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| From | Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 12:56 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6d9908e2-ac10-4999-9ba1-be8b240a56dc@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18685 |
(unknown) wrote: > java Install_Test.jar > > Error: Could not find or load main class Install_Test.jar Asked and answered upthread. Did you read the answer? Apparently not. It is rude to disregard answers and ask the same question again. Your command line is wrong. Study the docs for how to invoke the "java" command. As stated, "java Install_Test.jar" tries to run a class called "jar" in the package "Install_Test", which I'm pretty sure is not what you're trying to do. RTFM. http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/tools/windows/java.html in case you don't know where to look for documentation of the "java" command. RTFM. Know where TFM is. -- Lew
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| From | Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 12:58 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <db460ba3-8bda-4857-93ae-251f936483e5@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18684 |
(unknown) wrote: > About this process, I have two dot jar files in my project. I guess I put both of them in the Manifest.txt > file. Question 1: Do I separate these two jar file names with a comma? No. RTFM. > That link, basically, says to use the command: > > jar cfm NEW.jar Manifest.txt MyPackage/*.class > > But executing that command, I get the error message: > > MyPackage\*.class : no such file or directory. Is there such a file or directory on your system? No? Then why did you specify it? > So, Question 2: What do I put in place of "MyPackage/*.class". The NetBeans build process creates the > folder (C:\testing\build\classes\) which contains about 40 dot .class files. The actual folder, not the example in a tutorial. Really? -- Lew
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 20:45 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <50512cc6$0$293$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #18673 |
On 9/12/2012 11:58 AM, clusardi2k@aol.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:21:45 AM UTC-4, markspace wrote:
>>> On 9/12/2012 8:00 AM, ... wrote:
>>> I added the path to all my dot jars into an environment variable
>>> (user varianble and not a system variable) called classpath and was
>>> unable to run the project. I mean nothing happened.
>>
>> Learn to debug. Add some print statements so you can trace the execution of
>> your program. Attach a debugger. If nothing happens, that's because your app
>> did nothing. Java will print an error message if it finds a problem.
>
> I added the following as the first executable statement (etc) in the project:
>
> System.out.println("Hello 1");
>
> I then ran the project on my friend's PC using the Command Prompt and the command: java testing.jar
>
> I received the error message:
>
> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: testing/jar
Well give that the java command is in the format:
java -classpath myprog.jar mypackage.MyClass
or:
java -jar myprog.jar
then that is not surprising.
Arne
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| From | clusardi2k@aol.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 23:28 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d8124919-8c6a-4454-8d19-bf1f8e26fa2f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18713 |
(1) Research: Here are notes from books. Obviously, the solution to this problem involves simply looking-up "manifest files" on the Internet. (1) The manifest.txt (or dot mf) file: Main-Class: ClassName Where the ClassName is the fully qualified name of the class that contains the main method that is executed to start the application. It isn't required, but it's typical to use the extension.mf for manifest files. For example, suppose you have an application whose main class is GuessingGame, and all the class files for the application are in the package com.lowewriter.game. First, create a manifest file named game.mf in the com\lowewriter\game directory. This file contains the following line: Main-Class: com.lowewriter.game.GussingGame Then, run the jar command with the options cfm, the name of the archive to create, the name of the manifest file, and the path for the class files. For example: jar cfm game.jar com\lowewriter\game\game.mf com\loweweriter\game\*.class Now, you can run the application directly from a command prompt by using the java comand with the -jar switch and the name of the archive file. For example: java -jar game.jar This command starts the JRE and executes the main method of the class specified by the manifest file in the game.jar archive file. If your operating system is configured properly, you can also run the application by double-clicking an icon for the jar file. (2) You can add images to a Manifest file if you want. (3) Complex manifests can have many more entries. The manifest entries are grouped into sections. The first section in the manifest is called the main section. It applies to the whole JAR file. Subsequent entries can specify properties of named entities such as individual files, packages, or URLs. Those entries must begin with a Name entry. Sections are separated by blank lines. For example, Manifest-Version: 1.0 lines describing this archive Name: Woozle.class lines describing this file Name: com/mycompany/mypkg/ lines describing this package To edit the manifest, place the lines that you want to add to the manifest into a text file. Then run jar cfm JARFileName ManifestFileName ... For example, to make a new JAR file with a manifest, run: jar cmf MyArchive.jar manifest.mf com/mycompany/mpkg/*.class To add items to the manifest of an existing JAR file, place the additions into a text file and use a command such as jar ufm MyArchive.jar manifest-additions.mf
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-12 20:43 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <50512c50$0$293$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #18671 |
On 9/12/2012 11:00 AM, clusardi2k@aol.com wrote: >> On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:24:20 AM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote: >>> On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 3:45:42 PM UTC-4, markspace wrote: >>> On 9/11/2012 11:08 AM, Lew wrote: >>> markspace wrote: >>> That leaves setting the classpath in the jar itself, which is kind of tricky if >>> you are going to be moving the jar to other people's computers. Java WebStart >>> and OneJar come in handy here. Classpath in a jarfile: >>> <http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/deployment/jar/downman.html >>> I just saw this article on the Internet. My guess is I should ignore this >>> article, right? http://ac- >>> support.europe.umuc.edu/~arnoldyl/NetBeansTutorials/Setting-Classpath.html > > I added the path to all my dot jars into an environment variable (user varianble and not a system variable) called classpath Still not the optimal way. > and was unable to run the project. I mean nothing happened. Based on the information provided the most likely explanation is a defect return key on the keyboard. :-) But maybe there are some information that you are not giving us! Things like the command line used, the error message etc.. Arne
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| From | Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-17 10:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How Do I Publish My Working Project (corresponding dot jar doesn't work on other's PCs) |
| Message-ID | <abo7ofF12kU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #18646 |
On 11/09/12 20:45, markspace wrote: > On 9/11/2012 11:08 AM, Lew wrote: >> markspace wrote: >>> To run, you use java -cp <path to all needed jars> -jar <path/your jar> >> >> The problem with that is that the command will ignore the "-cp" >> parameter. >> >> "-cp" and "-jar" is either/or proposition. >> > > > Yes I totally forgot about that. I guess I don't actually run java from > the command line very often. > > That leaves setting the classpath in the jar itself, which is kind of > tricky if you are going to be moving the jar to other people's > computers. Java WebStart and OneJar come in handy here. It's not tricky at all if you setup the correct type of NetBeans project, as I already said. NetBeans will do it all for you. There's no need to start messing with jar's, manifests or Ant. It's very often easier to re-create the project as a Java Application than it is to "fix" a broken one. With a NetBeans Java application all you need is the contents of the dist/ directory. The main project jar will have a properly constructed manifest to allow the jar to be executed with "java -jar project.jar". Dependency jar's will be in the dist/lib directory, and a Class-Path: entry in the manifest will include that directory. When you build the project NetBeans very helpfully tells you exactly how to run it: "To run this application from the command line without Ant, try: java -jar "/path/to/project/dist/project.jar". All you need to distribute to anyone else is the dist/ directory. There's even a clue in the name. -- Nigel Wade
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| From | clusardi2k@aol.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-11 16:21 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b9a4cfaa-a10b-494f-93cf-2c9cb2bd4222@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18644 |
On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 12:25:45 PM UTC-4, markspace wrote: > On 9/11/2012 5:12 AM, ... wrote: > On NetBeans, how do I determine what JDK I'm using. I forgot which > one I loaded. It's in your project properties. And it's not the one you have loaded, it's the one you have set for the build target. In other words, if you are using JDK 7, you can still be targeting for example Java 5 in your project, which is useful if you have users still on Java 5 who don't want to upgrade. Right-click on the project, Properties -> Sources, way down at the bottom it says "Sources/Binary Format", that's your target (I'm using NB 7.2 btw, I seem to remember a slightly different option format in NB 6). Also, you need the JRE. The JDK is for development, your users won't normally need that. All they need is the normal runtime, the JRE. You personally can use the JDK, because it contains a JRE, but anyone else will normally just have the JRE. To run, you use java -cp <path to all needed jars> -jar <path/your jar> If you need to do fancier things than that (distribute over the internet, for example) then look into Java WebStart or consider OneJar if you are going to just copy the files around. How do I determine the specific JRE that I need. Thanks,
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| From | markspace <-@.> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-11 17:33 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <k2ol86$5bd$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #18659 |
On 9/11/2012 4:21 PM, clusardi2k@aol.com wrote: > On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 12:25:45 PM UTC-4, markspace wrote: >> Right-click on the project, Properties -> >> Sources, way down at the bottom it says "Sources/Binary Format", >> that's your target ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > How do I determine the specific JRE that I need. Reading the replies you get on this newsgroup would be a good start.
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| From | Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-09-07 22:26 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <qnll481jaqq9a60trgnp7o0pv35d3uun1l@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #18580 |
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 05:15:00 -0700 (PDT), clusardi2k@aol.com wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >Once my NetBeans project is finalized what do I have to do to create an exe= >cutable others can execute without having NetBeans directly installed on th= >e computer. You can bundle it up into a jar. see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jar.html You can compile the Java with jet to an exe see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jet.html -- Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products http://mindprod.com A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. ~ Max Planck 1858-04-23 1947-10-04
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