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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #15311 > unrolled thread

Recommendations for Lightweight Threading?

Started by"Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us>
First post2012-06-15 17:33 -0500
Last post2012-06-19 07:46 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 84 — 19 participants

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  Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-15 17:33 -0500
    Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-15 15:55 -0700
      Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-15 18:12 -0500
        Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-15 16:31 -0700
          Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-15 20:00 -0500
          Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-16 14:39 +0200
            Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-06-16 12:13 -0700
        Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-16 00:57 -0700
    Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-15 15:57 -0700
      Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-15 18:12 -0500
    Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-15 20:19 -0400
      Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-15 19:59 -0500
        Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-15 21:37 -0400
          Controlling the Garbage Collector "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-16 11:51 -0500
            Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-16 14:24 -0400
              Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-16 12:24 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-06-16 13:14 -0700
                  Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-16 16:35 -0400
                    Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-16 19:43 -0500
                    Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2012-06-23 13:36 +0200
                      Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-23 15:39 +0200
                  Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-16 14:34 -0700
            Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-18 04:32 -0700
              Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-24 14:31 -0700
            Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-20 21:19 -0400
              Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-21 13:24 -0500
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-21 11:37 -0700
                  Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Fred Greer <fggreer@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-21 21:20 +0000
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-21 15:24 -0400
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-21 23:46 +0200
                  Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Jukka Lahtinen <jtfjdehf@hotmail.com.invalid> - 2012-06-25 15:28 +0300
                    Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-25 09:05 -0400
                      Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-06-25 17:01 +0000
                        Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-25 13:45 -0400
                          Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-25 13:49 -0400
                          Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-25 20:41 +0200
                            Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-06-26 12:25 +0000
                              Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-26 06:46 -0700
                                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-06-26 16:26 +0000
                                  Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-26 13:07 -0400
                                    Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-26 22:28 +0200
                                    Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-06-26 23:49 +0000
                                      Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 18:20 -0700
                                        Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Highway to Hell <HtH49439112@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 21:52 -0400
                                          Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-26 20:01 -0700
                                            Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Highway to Hell <HtH49439112@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 23:23 -0400
                                              Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-27 09:05 -0700
                                                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-06-27 20:15 +0000
                                                  Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-27 13:52 -0700
                                                  Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 13:41 -0700
                                                    Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-27 19:02 -0700
                                                    Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-06-28 21:45 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-28 15:16 -0700
                                                        Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector) Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-06-29 02:10 +0000
                                                        Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-28 19:57 -0700
                                                          Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-29 04:06 +0000
                                                            Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions Tim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov> - 2012-06-29 08:35 -0400
                                                          Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector) Tim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov> - 2012-06-29 08:33 -0400
                                                      Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Tim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov> - 2012-06-29 08:30 -0400
                                                        Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-06-29 23:04 +0000
                                                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Highway to Hell <HtH49439112@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 16:53 -0400
                                              Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-06-27 11:32 -0500
                                                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Highway to Hell <HtH49439112@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 16:54 -0400
                                          Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 11:45 -0700
                                            Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Highway to Hell <HtH49439112@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 16:55 -0400
                                        Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-27 02:06 +0000
                                      Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-06-27 16:34 +0000
                                      Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-06-27 11:45 -0500
                                      Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-02 11:21 +0200
                              Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 13:52 -0700
                                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-06-26 23:40 +0000
                                  Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 16:48 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-21 15:15 -0700
                  Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-21 15:33 -0700
                    Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-21 21:24 -0500
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-21 15:23 -0700
          Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2012-06-17 15:49 +0200
      Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-16 01:00 -0700
        Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-16 01:04 -0700
    Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2012-06-16 04:03 +0200
    Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2012-06-15 22:27 -0700
      Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-16 14:39 +0200
        Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2012-06-18 19:37 -0700
          Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-19 07:46 -0700

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#15608 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromRobert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com>
Date2012-06-26 22:28 +0200
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<a4ukcfFk5dU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#15601
On 26.06.2012 19:07, Eric Sosman wrote:
> On 6/26/2012 12:26 PM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
>> [...]
>> Oh, seems I got the motivation wrong, then.  If that was your point,
>> then obviously my essay didn't address that.

Just to recollect what I wrote earlier:

> Long lived objects which live shorter than the application (i.e. not
> classes) are actually the Achilles heel of GC because it is very hard
> to tune the collector in a way that it does not visit those long
> living objects too often and yet run often enough to ensure enough
> free memory is available.

> On 21.06.2012 20:24, Aaron W. Hsu wrote:
>> Finally, there are times when I want to do a large bulk allocation
>> outside of the collector, and then selectively move certain things
>> into the collected space, but still have a checked, high-level way
>> of accessing data structures in the uncollected space.

me again:

> I once mused about such a thing as well.  I you think a bit longer
> about this then you'll notice that it won't work: these objects still
> have to be visited because they may have references to other objects
> not in the uncollectable space.  You'll probably do not gain much -
> if anything at all.


>> My motivation was having
>> some large objects, whose memory could be explicitly freed, as soon as
>> the memory was no longer needed in the program.
>
>      And my question, still, is "Why?"  At a guess, the intent is
> to make the large objects' memory available for re-use right away,
> without waiting for GC (and thereby, perhaps, reducing the number
> of GC's required).  But in all the scenarios so far, I think it's
> been shown that the effort to support manual release safely is at
> least as great as that of a GC, maybe more.

I second that: if memory is low and the object is eligible for 
collection, GC will take it away anyway.  If memory isn't low, any 
object lurking around doesn't hurt.  In fact, it might be better to have 
the space occupied by a single large object instead of many small 
objects because that makes so many objects less to visit...

Kind regards

	robert

-- 
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

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#15633 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromAndreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
Date2012-06-26 23:49 +0000
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<slrnjukijq.u9l.avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#15601
Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote:
> On 6/26/2012 12:26 PM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
>> Oh, seems I got the motivation wrong, then.  If that was your point,
>> then obviously my essay didn't address that.  My motivation was having
>> some large objects, whose memory could be explicitly freed, as soon as
>> the memory was no longer needed in the program.
>      And my question, still, is "Why?"

Why do some people prefer cars with manual gear shift?
Maybe a (sub)conscious distrust in complicated technology...

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#15640 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromLew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
Date2012-06-26 18:20 -0700
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<11c2c33a-ae05-4179-9a66-eee7bb90a49d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#15633
Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
> Eric Sosman wrote:
>> Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
>>> Oh, seems I got the motivation wrong, then.  If that was your point,
>>> then obviously my essay didn't address that.  My motivation was having
>>> some large objects, whose memory could be explicitly freed, as soon as
>>> the memory was no longer needed in the program.
>>      And my question, still, is "Why?"
> 
> Why do some people prefer cars with manual gear shift?
> Maybe a (sub)conscious distrust in complicated technology...

Nope.

My car was $800.00 less expensive with a manual transmission than with  
an automatic transmission. Manual gets better fuel economy. It gives better 
control over the vehicle, especially in inclement weather. You can drop to 
a lower gear and accelerate to pass more readily.

Subconscious distrust of complicated technology, indeed! Sniff! It's a 
rational economic decision for those of us skilled enough to drive a manual 
transmission.

-- 
Lew

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#15641 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromHighway to Hell <HtH49439112@gmail.com>
Date2012-06-26 21:52 -0400
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<jsdp0t$l5f$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#15640
On 26/06/2012 9:20 PM, Lew wrote:
> Nope.
>
> My car was $800.00 less expensive with a manual transmission than with
> an automatic transmission. Manual gets better fuel economy. It gives better
> control over the vehicle, especially in inclement weather. You can drop to
> a lower gear and accelerate to pass more readily.
>
> Subconscious distrust of complicated technology, indeed! Sniff! It's a
> rational economic decision for those of us skilled enough to drive a manual
> transmission.

Why am I not surprised that you'd not only have one, but be snobbish 
about it?

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#15647 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromGene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net>
Date2012-06-26 20:01 -0700
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<rqtku7tt18dpm2j70o4egmo14tn7lio4ev@4ax.com>
In reply to#15641
On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:52:30 -0400, Highway to Hell
<HtH49439112@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 26/06/2012 9:20 PM, Lew wrote:
>> Nope.
>>
>> My car was $800.00 less expensive with a manual transmission than with
>> an automatic transmission. Manual gets better fuel economy. It gives better
>> control over the vehicle, especially in inclement weather. You can drop to
>> a lower gear and accelerate to pass more readily.
>>
>> Subconscious distrust of complicated technology, indeed! Sniff! It's a
>> rational economic decision for those of us skilled enough to drive a manual
>> transmission.
>
>Why am I not surprised that you'd not only have one, but be snobbish 
>about it?

     Hardly snobbish.  He gave good reasons and did not lord them over
us.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#15651 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromHighway to Hell <HtH49439112@gmail.com>
Date2012-06-26 23:23 -0400
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<jsdub7$uff$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#15647
On 26/06/2012 11:01 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:52:30 -0400, Highway to Hell
> <HtH49439112@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 26/06/2012 9:20 PM, Lew wrote:
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> My car was $800.00 less expensive with a manual transmission than with
>>> an automatic transmission. Manual gets better fuel economy. It gives better
>>> control over the vehicle, especially in inclement weather. You can drop to
>>> a lower gear and accelerate to pass more readily.
>>>
>>> Subconscious distrust of complicated technology, indeed! Sniff! It's a
>>> rational economic decision for those of us skilled enough to drive a manual
>>> transmission.
>>
>> Why am I not surprised that you'd not only have one, but be snobbish
>> about it?
>
>       Hardly snobbish.

I beg your *freaking* pardon? "Sniff! It's a rational blah blah for 
those of us skilled enough blah blah" is about as 
intellectually-snobbish as it gets. He clearly looks down on everyone 
who chooses differently than him, in that and several other arenas.

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#15663 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromGene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net>
Date2012-06-27 09:05 -0700
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<6nbmu7hjk5onm590mfsqdof07hmgti32k7@4ax.com>
In reply to#15651
On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 23:23:20 -0400, Highway to Hell
<HtH49439112@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 26/06/2012 11:01 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:52:30 -0400, Highway to Hell
>> <HtH49439112@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/06/2012 9:20 PM, Lew wrote:
>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>> My car was $800.00 less expensive with a manual transmission than with
>>>> an automatic transmission. Manual gets better fuel economy. It gives better
>>>> control over the vehicle, especially in inclement weather. You can drop to
>>>> a lower gear and accelerate to pass more readily.
>>>>
>>>> Subconscious distrust of complicated technology, indeed! Sniff! It's a
>>>> rational economic decision for those of us skilled enough to drive a manual
>>>> transmission.
>>>
>>> Why am I not surprised that you'd not only have one, but be snobbish
>>> about it?
>>
>>       Hardly snobbish.
>
>I beg your *freaking* pardon? "Sniff! It's a rational blah blah for 
>those of us skilled enough blah blah" is about as 
>intellectually-snobbish as it gets. He clearly looks down on everyone 

     It is a tool that he says he knows how to use.

>who chooses differently than him, in that and several other arenas.

     It is a rational choice if you know how to use a manual
transmission.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#15674 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromMartin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Date2012-06-27 20:15 +0000
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<jsfpk8$dbj$1@localhost.localdomain>
In reply to#15663
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:05:11 -0700, Gene Wirchenko wrote:

>      It is a rational choice if you know how to use a manual
> transmission.
>
And have a license that says you're qualified to use it.
 

-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#15675 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromGene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net>
Date2012-06-27 13:52 -0700
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<2gsmu7hn45msv0p1vtlmvo6m4mdpofhtqf@4ax.com>
In reply to#15674
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 20:15:04 +0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie
<martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:05:11 -0700, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>
>>      It is a rational choice if you know how to use a manual
>> transmission.
>>
>And have a license that says you're qualified to use it.

     I think most people would understand that and such things as
needing to have hands to operate the stickshift.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#15686 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromLew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
Date2012-06-27 13:41 -0700
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<013b2aa4-a92d-41fc-a989-bc28a796f6fb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#15674
Martin Gregorie wrote:
> Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> 
> >      It is a rational choice if you know how to use a manual
> > transmission.
> >
> And have a license that says you're qualified to use it.

I live in the U.S. I know of no state here that has a separate driver's license 
for manual-transmission vehicles.

-- 
Lew

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#15698 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromGene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net>
Date2012-06-27 19:02 -0700
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<vnenu75416se557q00gfhfgncju28cfo52@4ax.com>
In reply to#15686
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 13:41:09 -0700 (PDT), Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>> 
>> >      It is a rational choice if you know how to use a manual
>> > transmission.
>> >
>> And have a license that says you're qualified to use it.
>
>I live in the U.S. I know of no state here that has a separate driver's license 
>for manual-transmission vehicles.

     I think that British Columbia used to have an endorsement
required on a licence in order to be able to drive a standard.  That
could be way out of date now.  It was from my childhood, and I am 51
now.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#15732 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromMartin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Date2012-06-28 21:45 +0000
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<jsija2$3jh$3@localhost.localdomain>
In reply to#15686
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 13:41:09 -0700, Lew wrote:

> Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>> 
>> >      It is a rational choice if you know how to use a manual
>> > transmission.
>> >
>> And have a license that says you're qualified to use it.
> 
> I live in the U.S. I know of no state here that has a separate driver's
> license for manual-transmission vehicles.
>
The countries where I've obtained driving licenses (NZ and the UK) both 
have a restriction that prevents a person who learnt on an automatic from 
driving a manual shift without additional training. The opposite does not 
apply: learn on a manual gearbox and you're good to go on an automatic.

As I stupidly did my right leg a lot damage a few years ago I'm now 
restricted to driving an automatic with a left-foot accelerator, which 
makes sense: I can drive a conventionally equipped manual Hilux pickup 
for short distances (2-3 km) but would not want to drive it on the road 
for any distance. I presume you're used to similar restrictions in the 
USA?


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#15733 — Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector)

FromLew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
Date2012-06-28 15:16 -0700
SubjectRe: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector)
Message-ID<2052a30d-c86b-4374-9be4-a28daa7fd8e6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#15732
Martin Gregorie wrote:
> Lew wrote:
>> Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>> Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>>>      It is a rational choice if you know how to use a manual
>>>> transmission.
>>>>
>>> And have a license that says you're qualified to use it.
>> 
>> I live in the U.S. I know of no state here that has a separate driver's
>> license for manual-transmission vehicles.
>>
> The countries where I've obtained driving licenses (NZ and the UK) both 
> have a restriction that prevents a person who learnt on an automatic from 
> driving a manual shift without additional training. The opposite does not 
> apply: learn on a manual gearbox and you're good to go on an automatic.
> 
> As I stupidly did my right leg a lot damage a few years ago I'm now 
> restricted to driving an automatic with a left-foot accelerator, which 
> makes sense: I can drive a conventionally equipped manual Hilux pickup 
> for short distances (2-3 km) but would not want to drive it on the road 
> for any distance. I presume you're used to similar restrictions in the 
> USA?

I personally am not. I know of no place in the U.S. that restricts one to 
driving an automatic without a certification for manual transmissions. I do 
not know of medical restrictions, e.g., having to have a left-foot accelerator 
if you cannot use the right foot, but they might well exist as that is outside 
my area of knowledge. I do know that if you need prescription eyewear you 
are not permitted to drive without it on.

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#15737 — Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector)

FromMartin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Date2012-06-29 02:10 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector)
Message-ID<jsj2rj$85o$1@localhost.localdomain>
In reply to#15733
On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:16:29 -0700, Lew wrote:

> I personally am not.
>
Yes, I assumed that and was referring to general,rather than personal 
knowledge of driver licensing.

> I know of no place in the U.S. that restricts one
> to driving an automatic without a certification for manual
> transmissions. I do not know of medical restrictions, e.g., having to
> have a left-foot accelerator if you cannot use the right foot, but they
> might well exist as that is outside my area of knowledge.
>
I'd be surprised if there aren't medical restrictions and/or rules about 
mandatory modifications to the car.

> I do know that if you need prescription eyewear you are not permitted
> to drive without it on.
>
And yet you can drive legally in California although a registered blind 
person, or could a few years back. Strange.....

Here pilots can fly with prescription eyeglasses but *must* have a second 
pair with them in case the first pair gets damaged. Makes sense: landing 
with busted or lost glasses would be problematic.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#15740 — Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector)

FromGene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net>
Date2012-06-28 19:57 -0700
SubjectRe: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector)
Message-ID<996qu75fr7luabmbrg3849lsgc7taj8fv7@4ax.com>
In reply to#15733
On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:16:29 -0700 (PDT), Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
wrote:

[snip]

>I personally am not. I know of no place in the U.S. that restricts one to 
>driving an automatic without a certification for manual transmissions. I do 
>not know of medical restrictions, e.g., having to have a left-foot accelerator 
>if you cannot use the right foot, but they might well exist as that is outside 
>my area of knowledge. I do know that if you need prescription eyewear you 
>are not permitted to drive without it on.

     Not necessarily I should think.  I wear glasses, but legally (in
British Columbia), I do not have to wear them for driving as my vision
is good enough without them.  They are more reading glasses with a bit
more.

     Odd exceptions strike in more areas than computing!

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#15741 — Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions

Fromglen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Date2012-06-29 04:06 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Driver's license restrictions
Message-ID<jsj9k7$clf$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#15740
Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> wrote:

(snip)

>     Not necessarily I should think.  I wear glasses, but legally (in
> British Columbia), I do not have to wear them for driving as my vision
> is good enough without them.  They are more reading glasses with a bit
> more.

If you can pass the vision test (reading a line of letters)
without them, then you can drive without them.

-- glen

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#15746 — Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions

FromTim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov>
Date2012-06-29 08:35 -0400
SubjectRe: [OT] Driver's license restrictions
Message-ID<868ru7tlri0ipg80m0iq31jqfkeqf1g3tl@4ax.com>
In reply to#15741
glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:

>Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> wrote:
>
>(snip)
>
>>     Not necessarily I should think.  I wear glasses, but legally (in
>> British Columbia), I do not have to wear them for driving as my vision
>> is good enough without them.  They are more reading glasses with a bit
>> more.
>
>If you can pass the vision test (reading a line of letters)
>without them, then you can drive without them.

True. If you need eye correction to pass that test, then your license
will say that you must be wearing lenses to drive your car.

Hmm...I guess somebody who needed lenses on the test, then had Lasik
which made him able to see, would have to go back and take the test
again. 

-- 
Tim Slattery
Slattery_T@bls.gov

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#15745 — Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector)

FromTim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov>
Date2012-06-29 08:33 -0400
SubjectRe: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector)
Message-ID<jv7ru7pg35a2f9vji8c6fjmm4bqrpjkfoj@4ax.com>
In reply to#15740
Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:16:29 -0700 (PDT), Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>I personally am not. I know of no place in the U.S. that restricts one to 
>>driving an automatic without a certification for manual transmissions. I do 
>>not know of medical restrictions, e.g., having to have a left-foot accelerator 
>>if you cannot use the right foot, but they might well exist as that is outside 
>>my area of knowledge. I do know that if you need prescription eyewear you 
>>are not permitted to drive without it on.
>
>     Not necessarily I should think.  I wear glasses, but legally (in
>British Columbia), I do not have to wear them for driving as my vision
>is good enough without them.  They are more reading glasses with a bit
>more.

Oh yeah, necessarily. I am extremely myopic, I would be a danger to
myself and others without correction, even walking. My license
specifies that I must be wearing corrective lenses to drive a car.
Contact lenses count. 

Needless restriction in my case. I never move more than a few feet
from my bed without either glasses or contacts.

-- 
Tim Slattery
Slattery_T@bls.gov

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#15743 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromTim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov>
Date2012-06-29 08:30 -0400
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<bm7ru79famsdet1rh2hep4vbkb2hc8il7d@4ax.com>
In reply to#15732
Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

>The countries where I've obtained driving licenses (NZ and the UK) both 
>have a restriction that prevents a person who learnt on an automatic from 
>driving a manual shift without additional training. The opposite does not 
>apply: learn on a manual gearbox and you're good to go on an automatic.

>As I stupidly did my right leg a lot damage a few years ago I'm now 
>restricted to driving an automatic with a left-foot accelerator, which 
>makes sense: I can drive a conventionally equipped manual Hilux pickup 
>for short distances (2-3 km) but would not want to drive it on the road 
>for any distance. I presume you're used to similar restrictions in the 
>USA?

Not the first thing you mention, the restriction on using a manual
without additional training. But I can certainly see the reason for
it.

As for people with right-foot problems being restricted to left-foot
pedals: yes, absolutely. A few years ago my wife was having
considerable problems with her right foot. She had a left-foot pedal
installed, and as a condition of that, her driver's license was
changed to say that she could only operate a left-foot pedal car.

The flip side is that the left-foot car can only legally be operated
by someone with that restriction on the license. So I wasn't supposed
to drive it, even though the pedal would fold up out of the way.

-- 
Tim Slattery
Slattery_T@bls.gov

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#15754 — Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

FromMartin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Date2012-06-29 23:04 +0000
SubjectRe: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Message-ID<jslc9o$qlt$1@localhost.localdomain>
In reply to#15743
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 08:30:05 -0400, Tim Slattery wrote:

> The flip side is that the left-foot car can only legally be operated by
> someone with that restriction on the license. So I wasn't supposed to
> drive it, even though the pedal would fold up out of the way.
>
Interesting. 

My car has an accelerator pedal on each side of the brake pedal, linked 
so that only one of them is usable at a time. The other one folds up away 
from feet on that side. IOW, anybody else can drive the car by pulling 
the right pedal down. Sure makes life easier for the guys in the garage 
when it needs servicing. In the UK this seems to be the usual setup and 
means that any normal driver can swap pedals and drive legally.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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