Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #22747 > unrolled thread

How do you perceive programming? how do you look at the quality of software? Help needed with a quick survey!!!1

Started by	komal singh <komalkorotana@gmail.com>
First post	2013-03-06 13:38 -0800
Last post	2013-03-12 06:10 -0700
Articles	20 on this page of 64 — 17 participants

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#22821

From	komal singh <komalkorotana@gmail.com>
Date	2013-03-08 03:02 -0800
Message-ID	<39049b29-6ca5-4ff4-98c5-11c213fefcfc@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#22817

Lipska has so to speak, hit the nail on the head. I asked a question which was reposted by myself. Then I get a bunch of guys attacking me for what I had done. This is a public group therefore I joined, if you have an issue with how others act then maybe you should start a private group. ALL I ASKED FOR WAS SOME HELP. Disso is a term that is used widely across the UK, regardless of what class or year you are in. Stop trying to pick up on everything like little kids. 

Too much time on your hands results in negative thoughts and actions!!!

whopps i used one too many exclamation marks. please don't tell me off.

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#22826

From	Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com>
Date	2013-03-08 12:10 -0600
Message-ID	<ubSdnbsaHac2tKfMnZ2dnUVZ8vCdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to	#22821

komal singh <komalkorotana@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is a public group therefore I joined, if you have an issue with
> how others act then maybe you should start a private group.

Eye. Beam. Splinter.

-- 
Leif Roar Moldskred

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#22827

From	Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid>
Date	2013-03-08 13:16 -0500
Message-ID	<khd9p6$k6a$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#22826

On 3/8/2013 1:10 PM, Leif Roar Moldskred wrote:
> komal singh <komalkorotana@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This is a public group therefore I joined, if you have an issue with
>> how others act then maybe you should start a private group.
>
> Eye. Beam. Splinter.

     ITYM "Troll. Troll. Troll."

-- 
Eric Sosman
esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid

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#22828

From	lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk">
Date	2013-03-08 18:25 +0000
Message-ID	<w4CdndnktduWsKfMnZ2dnUVZ7vOdnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to	#22827

On 08/03/13 18:16, Eric Sosman wrote:
> On 3/8/2013 1:10 PM, Leif Roar Moldskred wrote:
>> komal singh <komalkorotana@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This is a public group therefore I joined, if you have an issue with
>>> how others act then maybe you should start a private group.
>>
>> Eye. Beam. Splinter.
>
> ITYM "Troll. Troll. Troll."

Why do you think that anyone who stands up for themselves against the 
persistent and infantile whining that goes on in this group is a troll. 
Take a look in the mirror pal.

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#22830

From	Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Date	2013-03-08 22:31 +0000
Message-ID	<khdork$g93$1@localhost.localdomain>
In reply to	#22821

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 03:02:47 -0800, komal singh wrote:

> Disso is a term that is used
> widely across the UK, regardless of what class or year you are in. Stop
> trying to pick up on everything like little kids.
> 
Never seen it before you used it and I was probably programming before 
you were born.

As to your survey: I don't know you, you're not supplying anything I need 
and I have no way of knowing what else you'd do with my address if I gave 
it to you. There are a LOT of phishers and spammers out there who'll try 
any form of social engineering to build a saleable address list. How do I 
know you're  not one of them?

All in all I have no reason to give you my e-mail address. In short, if 
you want to run a survey you need to find a way of getting responders 
that doesn't involve them going to the trouble of contacting them first. 

There are free websites that you can use to run surveys. Have you 
considered using them?

-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#22833

From	Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca>
Date	2013-03-08 19:16 -0400
Message-ID	<Kju_s.36066$rk7.18577@newsfe05.iad>
In reply to	#22830

On 03/08/2013 06:31 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 03:02:47 -0800, komal singh wrote:
>
>> Disso is a term that is used
>> widely across the UK, regardless of what class or year you are in. Stop
>> trying to pick up on everything like little kids.
>>
> Never seen it before you used it and I was probably programming before
> you were born.
[ SNIP ]

Could've figured it out from context, but it's the first time I've heard 
of the term myself, and I read a fair bit of modern colloquial English 
literature. Fair bit of hubris on anyone's part to imagine that a slang 
term peculiar to an exclusive group in one specific era is known by most 
everyone...especially considering that a majority of folks on this NG 
aren't from the UK.

AHS

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#22834

From	Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date	2013-03-08 18:35 -0500
Message-ID	<513a75d8$0$32115$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to	#22821

On 3/8/2013 6:02 AM, komal singh wrote:
>                                                   I asked a question
> which was reposted by myself. Then I get a bunch of guys attacking me
> for what I had done.

Not correct:

You got a very polite response asking you not to
multipost.

##Please do not multipost.

And then you started the attack:

#no need to show so much attitude... its my university project i'm
#asking help for not some cocky answer.

>                         This is a public group therefore I joined,

You really don't join a usenet group, but Google may make it look so.

>                                                                 if
> you have an issue with how others act then maybe you should start a
> private group.

Bad behavior on your part should not cause other to leave.

>                  ALL I ASKED FOR WAS SOME HELP.

If that was all, then you would have gotten help.

But you were being rude when asked to follow usenet
etiquette.

The you do not get much help.

>                                         Disso is a term that is
> used widely across the UK, regardless of what class or year you are
> in.

If that is the case, then it is perfectly valid to use the
term in a forum for UK students.

But cljp is not such a forum.

So it is no excuse.

Arne

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#22846

From	komal singh <komalkorotana@gmail.com>
Date	2013-03-09 03:09 -0800
Message-ID	<c6f53786-beb3-45d0-84b4-0169dd5a143a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#22834

where are these so called rules?

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#22852

From	lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk">
Date	2013-03-09 12:21 +0000
Message-ID	<45WdnZbuK9HKtKbMnZ2dnUVZ8i2dnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to	#22846

On 09/03/13 11:09, komal singh wrote:

> where are these so called rules?

In his head and in the heads of the other members of the cabal.

However and FYI there are plenty of resources out there to help you 
avoid giving Arne and his cronies the opportunity to show how jolly 
clever they are by pouncing on every 'mistake', here are a couple.

http://networking.nitecruzr.net/2005/05/how-to-post-on-usenet-and-encourage.html

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Usenet is a great place to hang out as long as you don't mind the noise.

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#22854

From	David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca>
Date	2013-03-09 14:58 -0500
Message-ID	<khg45l$83f$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#22852

On 09/03/2013 7:21 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
> On 09/03/13 11:09, komal singh wrote:
>
>> where are these so called rules?
>
> In his head and in the heads of the other members of the cabal.

Less pejoratively worded, and as I alluded to previously, they're tied 
up in decades of culture -- and like any culture, many of the "rules" 
are unwritten and not everybody follows them all the time. An old-timer 
might be forgiven a lapse that would be jumped on in a newcomer.

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#22899

From	Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date	2013-03-11 17:37 -0400
Message-ID	<513e4e82$0$32109$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to	#22846

On 3/9/2013 6:09 AM, komal singh wrote:
> where are these so called rules?

As others have already explained then they are not formalized
and vary a bit between different groups.

Multiposting is generally frowned on.

Tolerance for off-topic posts vary a lot (I consider cljp to be
somewhere in the middle regrading that).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette_%28technology%29#Netiquette

has a very short description:

<quote>
Netiquette (short for "network etiquette" or "Internet etiquette") is a 
set of social conventions that facilitate interaction over networks, 
ranging from Usenet and mailing lists to blogs and forums. However, like 
many Internet phenomena, the concept and its application remain in a 
state of flux, and vary from community to community. The points most 
strongly emphasized about USENET netiquette often include using simple 
electronic signatures, and avoiding multiposting, cross-posting, 
off-topic posting, hijacking a discussion thread, and other techniques 
used to minimize the effort required to read a post or a thread. 
Similarly, some Usenet guidelines call for use of unabbreviated English 
while users of instant messaging protocols like SMS occasionally 
encourage just the opposite, bolstering use of SMS language. However, 
many other online communities frown upon this practice.

Common rules for e-mail and USENET such as avoiding flamewars and spam 
are constant across most mediums and communities. Another rule is to 
avoid typing in ALL CAPS or grossly enlarging script for emphasis, which 
is considered to be the equivalent of shouting or yelling. Other 
commonly shared points, such as remembering that one's posts are (or can 
easily be made) public, are generally intuitively understood by 
publishers of Web pages and posters to USENET, although this rule is 
somewhat flexible depending on the environment.
</quote>

Arne

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#22835

From	Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date	2013-03-08 18:47 -0500
Message-ID	<513a7876$0$32111$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to	#22817

On 3/8/2013 4:09 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
> Don't you find it illuminating that the large majority of new posters to
> cljp end up in a defensive position due to the relentless criticism they
> encounter from a notable few individuals in this group?

Well - they don't.

The majority of new posters here seem to have the social skills
necessary to ask a question and process feedback, so they get help
and since a good portion of them come back, then they must also consider
it good help.

Occasionally - maybe once every two month or so - we get a new poster
that is convinced that rules does not apply to him (or her) and that
he (or she) can dictate how others should answer or comment. They don't
get much help. And they leave. And I don't think that many miss them.

> If you just answered the question then I suggest that much of the
> pointless noise in this group would simply disappear.

You seems to represent most of the noise, so you could easily
reduce the nose levels.

But then that is not what trolls do.

Arne

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#22842

From	lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk">
Date	2013-03-09 08:52 +0000
Message-ID	<zYednbG5_7HMZafMnZ2dnUVZ7vOdnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to	#22835

On 08/03/13 23:47, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 3/8/2013 4:09 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>> Don't you find it illuminating that the large majority of new posters to
>> cljp end up in a defensive position due to the relentless criticism they
>> encounter from a notable few individuals in this group?
>
> Well - they don't.

<sigh>

OK, it goes something like this

A visitor posts a request

Then

Either

They are criticized for their English when English is not their first 
language, or they are criticized for the apparent simplicity of their 
question, or they are criticized for the way they post the question or 
they are told (rudely) to RTFM or they are otherwise abused, belittled 
or insulted.

It's all there 'in the literature' as they say.

> The majority of new posters here seem to have the social skills
> necessary to ask a question and process feedback,

Well possibly but it's a shame that *some* of the responders don't have 
similar skills.

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#22900

From	Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date	2013-03-11 17:42 -0400
Message-ID	<513e4fca$0$32107$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to	#22842

On 3/9/2013 3:52 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
> On 08/03/13 23:47, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 3/8/2013 4:09 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>> Don't you find it illuminating that the large majority of new posters to
>>> cljp end up in a defensive position due to the relentless criticism they
>>> encounter from a notable few individuals in this group?
>>
>> Well - they don't.
>
> <sigh>
>
> OK, it goes something like this
>
> A visitor posts a request
>
> Then
>
> Either
>
> They are criticized for their English when English is not their first
> language,

Very few people here do that. You and Lew do it frequently, but you
can solve half of that problem!

>        or they are criticized for the apparent simplicity of their
> question,

That is extremely rare.

>         or they are criticized for the way they post the question

They get told how to ask better questions, so they can get better
answers.

That is a good thing.

>                                                                    or
> they are told (rudely) to RTFM

RTFM is not an insult.

If it is accompanied by a link to the relevant FM, then
it is very helpful.

Arne

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#22922

From	lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk">
Date	2013-03-12 09:09 +0000
Message-ID	<Kc6dnSL-_qhebaPMnZ2dnUVZ8s2dnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to	#22900

On 11/03/13 21:42, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 3/9/2013 3:52 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>> On 08/03/13 23:47, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 3/8/2013 4:09 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>>>> Don't you find it illuminating that the large majority of new

[snip]

> Very few people here do that. You and Lew do it frequently, but you
> can solve half of that problem!

The subtleties of irony are often lost on the dull of intellect.

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#22773

From	komal singh <komalkorotana@gmail.com>
Date	2013-03-07 04:53 -0800
Message-ID	<b8d19312-3e7a-4278-81a9-25c75a359ec0@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#22747

On Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:38:44 PM UTC, komal singh wrote:
> Can you please help with a quick short survey which looks at the perceptions of programmers and also how they look at the quality of software??? 
> 
> 	
> 
> 	
> 
> Thanking You

seen as though your replying and asking me a question its not really talking to myself.. wow you guys do seem to think your above everybody..

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#22775

From	lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk">
Date	2013-03-07 13:32 +0000
Message-ID	<4cSdnV1io5dDC6XMnZ2dnUVZ8uWdnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to	#22773

On 07/03/13 12:53, komal singh wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:38:44 PM UTC, komal singh wrote:
>> Can you please help with a quick short survey which looks at the perceptions of programmers and also how they look at the quality of software???
>>
>> 	
>>
>> 	
>>
>> Thanking You
>
> seen as though your replying and asking me a question its not really talking to myself.. wow you guys do seem to think your above everybody..

Welcome to comp.lang.java.programmer

There are some very helpful people here although they tend to stick to 
Java. Your request may be a little general for them and asking people 
for email addresses in a newsgroup never goes down well. Maybe if you 
posted the questionnaire somewhere where people could download it and 
decide if they wanted to contribute might help but I wouldn't hold my 
breath.

Then of course we have the rest. Ah the rest, as you've discovered they 
are a bunch of self-obsessed self-righteous pompous know-alls who 
delight in pouncing on unsuspecting newbies and being as rude and 
obnoxious as they can.

Ignore them, they are classic Usenet trolls who get their kicks by 
posting inflammatory messages to illicit an angry response. They tried 
it with me but failed miserably, for some reason they appear to be 
mostly Scandinavian judging by the names.

Good luck with your project

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#22776

From	komal singh <komalkorotana@gmail.com>
Date	2013-03-07 05:37 -0800
Message-ID	<e43e6f37-7197-4d7b-bd91-27e5e764e37d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#22747

On Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:38:44 PM UTC, komal singh wrote:
> Can you please help with a quick short survey which looks at the perceptions of programmers and also how they look at the quality of software??? 
> 
> 	
> 
> 	
> 
> Thanking You

Wow thank you so much Lipska You have pointed it out well. All I need is 10 -12 programmers who can carry out a quick task and answer a few questions. But, some people soon begin to think they are above others. I am only a student who enjoys programming too. Can we correspond through emails? I understand what you are saying David but how can I put my questionnaire on here? Should i copy and paste the questions and post them? 
Thanks for the response guys

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#22777

From	lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk">
Date	2013-03-07 14:00 +0000
Message-ID	<M-ydnfMY99gPAKXMnZ2dnUVZ8nqdnZ2d@bt.com>
In reply to	#22776

On 07/03/13 13:37, komal singh wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:38:44 PM UTC, komal singh wrote:
>> Can you please help with a quick short survey which looks at the perceptions of programmers and also how they look at the quality of software???
>>
>> 	
>>
>> 	
>>
>> Thanking You

> Should i copy and paste the questions and post them?

Er, no, probably not a good idea, the lunatics are in the hall ...

There are a number off ways you can do this, do you have a web site?
You could upload the file and issue a URL. Failing that, does your 
university have a file sharing service if not there are free file 
sharing sites out there, you just gotta find them.

Figure out a way to post your questionnaire (NOT HERE) and I'll fill it in.

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#22786

From	Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date	2013-03-07 11:03 -0500
Message-ID	<5138ba66$0$32104$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to	#22776

On 3/7/2013 8:37 AM, komal singh wrote:
> Wow thank you so much Lipska You have pointed it out well. All I need
> is 10 -12 programmers who can carry out a quick task and answer a few
> questions. But, some people soon begin to think they are above
> others.

Are you talking about the individual that does not think the
"do not multi-post" apply to him??

Arne

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csiph-web

How do you perceive programming? how do you look at the quality of software? Help needed with a quick survey!!!1

Contents

#22821

#22826

#22827

#22828

#22830

#22833

#22834

#22846

#22852

#22854

#22899

#22835

#22842

#22900

#22922

#22773

#22775

#22776

#22777

#22786