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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #5757 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2011-06-28 17:54 -0700 |
| Last post | 2011-06-29 18:32 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 98 — 25 participants |
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StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-28 17:54 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-06-28 21:29 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-06-29 00:48 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-29 12:19 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-29 12:11 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-06-29 22:06 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-06-29 20:17 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-29 18:55 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 20:30 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-30 14:17 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-06-30 21:36 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-07-01 01:41 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-30 14:26 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-06-30 17:33 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 20:47 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-01 17:29 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties rossum <rossum48@coldmail.com> - 2011-07-02 11:36 +0100
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-07-02 12:58 +0200
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-04 07:52 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-07-04 21:45 +0200
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-05 02:06 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-05 09:32 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-05 14:13 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-05 12:51 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-07-05 23:16 +0200
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-05 15:08 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-07-06 09:41 +0200
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties "eye" <eye@mocka.com> - 2011-07-06 09:55 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> - 2011-07-06 05:37 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties "thoolen" <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> - 2011-07-06 08:43 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> - 2011-07-06 22:30 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties "Stefan Robacki" <noemail@noemail.foobar> - 2011-07-06 00:04 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> - 2011-07-06 05:45 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> - 2011-07-06 08:26 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> - 2011-07-06 22:36 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-07-06 06:09 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 22:40 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties John Doe <jdoe@usenetlove.invalid> - 2011-07-14 06:50 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-14 02:58 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Jane Doe <jdoe@love.in.d.jungle.invalid> - 2011-07-14 10:20 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <tholen01@gmail.com> - 2011-07-14 07:33 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> - 2011-07-05 23:44 +0300
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-05 14:08 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 18:33 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-02 16:56 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 01:34 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-02 19:55 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 03:32 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-04 08:04 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 19:12 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-05 14:06 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 21:16 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-05 17:29 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 16:59 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 19:52 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-06 16:58 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 19:52 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 21:54 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 22:18 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 22:41 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 17:45 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 05:48 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 16:59 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-06 10:56 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 17:44 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-08 11:51 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-10 19:08 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-11 07:54 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-11 22:37 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-11 15:52 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 08:25 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 19:41 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 19:58 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 21:57 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 22:17 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 22:44 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Steve Erwin <trollHunter@Usenet.4.usenetizens.org.invalid> - 2011-07-07 12:51 +1000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-06 23:02 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties John Doe <jdoe@usenetlove.invalid> - 2011-07-14 06:32 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-14 02:57 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Jane Doe <jdoe@love.in.d.jungle.invalid> - 2011-07-14 10:07 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties thoolen <tholen01@gmail.com> - 2011-07-14 07:24 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-04 07:58 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 19:09 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties KitKat <kitkat_11697@gmail.example.com> - 2011-07-05 15:15 -0400
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 20:03 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-05 14:11 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 16:55 +0000
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 00:08 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-07-03 12:35 +0200
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 04:07 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-29 14:38 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-29 15:00 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-29 15:52 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-29 18:58 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-29 19:26 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 00:11 -0700
Re: StringBuilder Difficulties Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-06-29 18:32 -0700
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| From | supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-05 02:06 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iuu9ka$o4p$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #5856 |
On 04/07/2011 3:45 PM, Robert Klemme wrote:
> On 04.07.2011 16:52, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>> It is horribly verbose. Java: COBOL++?
>
> In part it's the price you pay for static typing
Wrong. Lots of strongly statically typed languages don't have nearly the
verbosity, including Haskell and the ML family of languages. Generally
what they have is very smart type inference capabilities in the
compilers, so you have to specify types quite rarely, e.g. specifying
the precision a literal number should be considered to have, and
specifying argument types to functions. In-function declarations and
sometimes return types are inferred by data flow analysis. A Java
equivalent would be if you could do
public foobar (int a, String b) {
x = a + b.length();
y = 1.3*x;
return y.toString();
}
and this would work, with the compiler first resolving .length() to
String's method and seeing that this returns int, seeing then that a
b.length() adds two ints so is of type int, and inferring x is an int;
then y is a double times an int so y is a double; then resolving
.toString(); to Double's method (post-autoboxing of y) and inferring
that foobar's return type is String.
pubic wontwork (int a, String ) {
x = a + b
}
blows up, meanwhile, because int + String is not defined anywhere.
In this case, x and y lack *manifest* typing but have compile-time types
more specific than Object.
The thing is, javac already does some type inference, and indeed decides
which .length() method is being called in line 1 and the type of the
expression a + b.length() in exactly the way described above. It just
won't go on to infer x's type if it's not specified. (Partly, also, the
absence of a type before x would make declaring and initializing a local
not look different from assigning to it. A nice rule would be that
mutable x = ...
declares and initializes a mutable local and
x = ...
declares and initializes an immutable local if no mutable x is within
scope, and assigns to the innermost in-scope mutable x otherwise. This
would favor less use of mutation and type inference would take much of
the pain out of any proposed syntax for lambdas in Java, making Java
more supportive of using a functional style in areas where that's
appropriate and avoiding some of the mutation "side-effect spaghetti
code" that's all too common these days.
The semantics above would be that if x isn't explicitly declared
"mutable", it acts like in current Java when it's declared "final".
Definite assignment rules would still apply, more-or-less unchanged,
with "mutable x;" being allowed as "int x;" is now and
if foo
x = baz;
else
quux.frobnicate();
return x + 3;
being a definite assignment violation if no local x existed above "if
foo" in that method body, a violation of finalness if a final x existed
above "if foo" in the same block, and OK if a mutable x existed above
"if foo" in the same scope and was definitely assigned to even if the
else clause executed (say because it was "mutable x = 0;" at the point
of declaration). An immutable x in a block enclosing the block but not
in the same block as the if would create a conundrum: depending on the
if branch taken there seem to be two different xs that the return could
mean. I'd say though that the x = baz; creates a local x in the directly
enclosing block that exists, but is not definitely assigned, at the
return statement. As for
x = foo;
mutable x = bar;
in the same block: illegal. But in nested blocks, inner shadows outer as
always.
Let me know if you find any obvious problem with the above ideas
(besides the high improbability that Oracle will ever implement them).
> Tools are good enough these days to offload
> you from most of the hand typing via completion.
A proof of concept that javac could do more of the type-inference heavy
lifting itself.
> If you look for a language on the JVM with less overhead maybe Scala is
> for you. Some people do find it too compact though.
Another functional language with type inference.
Define "too compact", given that it doesn't go to line-noisy extremes
like perl.
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| From | markspace <-@.> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-05 09:32 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <iuveal$r32$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #5857 |
On 7/4/2011 11:06 PM, super... wrote:
>
> public foobar (int a, String b) {
> x = a + b.length();
> y = 1.3*x;
You go through quite a bit of verbiage to justify not typing int and
double in front of those last two lines.
(Incidentally, while we're talking excess verbiage, your nom de usenet
broke my reply button. Do you think you could adopt something that's
less than 40 characters?)
> Define "too compact", given that it doesn't go to line-noisy extremes
> like perl.
Here at least we agree--Perl is too "compact" to the extreme that it's
almost unreadable. Sure, I wouldn't mind if the Java compiler were a
bit smarter, but at the same time I don't feel your examples were
exactly compelling either.
It's just not that hard to specify the type of a variable explicitly.
No one's fingers will fall off from typing. I understand you don't care
for it, but it's not odious either. Those of you who really like this
sort of thing should check out lambda expressions for Java 8, there's
some additional type inference coming where it's really needed.
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| From | supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-05 14:13 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iuvk96$3bq$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #5859 |
On 05/07/2011 12:32 PM, markspace wrote:
> On 7/4/2011 11:06 PM, super... wrote:
>>
>> public foobar (int a, String b) {
>> x = a + b.length();
>> y = 1.3*x;
>
>
> You go through quite a bit of verbiage to justify not typing int and
> double in front of those last two lines.
Toy example.
And the JLS goes through a lot more veriage to explain the exact
semantics of every little construct in Java. With good reason.
> (Incidentally, while we're talking excess verbiage, your nom de usenet
> broke my reply button. Do you think you could adopt something that's
> less than 40 characters?)
Do you think you could adopt a newsreader that doesn't have glaring
errors in it such as fixed-size char* buffers instead of
java.lang.Strings or similarly non-woefully-primitive implementation
datatypes? ;)
> Here at least we agree--Perl is too "compact" to the extreme that it's
> almost unreadable. Sure, I wouldn't mind if the Java compiler were a bit
> smarter, but at the same time I don't feel your examples were exactly
> compelling either.
>
> It's just not that hard to specify the type of a variable explicitly.
Not when there are only two of them and they're "int" and "double".
It starts to seem a bit more tedious the fifty-thousandth time you type
ConcurrentNavigableMap<QuuxscapeTuttifrutticatorGUIDInstance<String>,
List<FrobnicatorFactoryServiceProviderFactoryImpl<Integer,String>>>
foo
in a three million LOC project. Particularly when you frequently follow
it up with
= new ConcurrentSkipListMap<QuuxScapeTuttifrutticatorGUIDInstance<String>,
List<FrobnicatorFactoryServiceProviderFactoryImpl<Integer,String>>>(new
Comparator<QuuxScapeTuttiFrutticatorGUIDInstance<String>>() {
public int compare (QuuxscapeTuttiFrutticatorGUIDInstance<String>
x, QuuxscapeTuttiFrutticatorGUIDInstance<String> y) {
; use the reverse of the usual order in this one
return compare(y.getToken(),x.getToken());
}
};
and then the damn thing won't compile because you have the wrong
capitalization for QuuxScape (or is it Quuxscape?) here and there.
> No one's fingers will fall off from typing.
I beg to differ; I'm sewing two of mine back on right after I hit "send"
and that's just from writing a mere 12 lines of typical Java. Just
imagine how many times I'll have reattached them by the third million
LOC or so. ;)
> I understand you don't care for it, but it's not odious either.
*ahem* ConcurrentNavigableMap<QuuxscapeTuttifrutticatorGUIDInstance<String>,
List<FrobnicatorFactoryServiceProviderFactoryImpl<Integer,String>>>
*cough*
> Those of you who really like this sort of thing should check out
> lambda expressions for Java 8, there's some additional type
> inference coming where it's really needed.
Oh, goody. Progress at last. At this rate maybe we'll even have type
inference in "new" expression initializations by about 2020 or so. Just
in time for my retirement. ;)
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| From | markspace <-@.> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-05 12:51 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <iuvq0h$e95$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #5860 |
On 7/5/2011 11:13 AM, super.. wrote: > ConcurrentNavigableMap<QuuxscapeTuttifrutticatorGUIDInstance<String>, > List<FrobnicatorFactoryServiceProviderFactoryImpl<Integer,String>>> I'd like to see some actual examples from actual code, rather than these obvious straw-man arguments.
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| From | Silvio <silvio@moc.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-05 23:16 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <4e137f35$0$21745$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #5867 |
On 07/05/2011 09:51 PM, markspace wrote: > On 7/5/2011 11:13 AM, super.. wrote: >> ConcurrentNavigableMap<QuuxscapeTuttifrutticatorGUIDInstance<String>, >> List<FrobnicatorFactoryServiceProviderFactoryImpl<Integer,String>>> > > > I'd like to see some actual examples from actual code, rather than these > obvious straw-man arguments. > Drop it. I spent 10 years programming Java (pre- and post-generics) and moved to Scala three years ago. It's no contest, believe me. But as always, comparison of individual language features is pointless and only gives wrong impressions. One would have to compare a larger peace of Java and the equivalent Scala code (of good quality and with enough explanation) to get a good idea of how they compare. In my experience Scala rewrites of Java code shrink to 25%-50% of the original size. In my opinion the result is also much more readable and self-describing but the amount of logic-per-line-of-code is so much higher that others feel exactly the opposite way. To each his own. There is no point in starting another language war, and I do not think super* was trying to do that. Gr. Silvio
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| From | markspace <-@.> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-05 15:08 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <iv020a$6f0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #5875 |
On 7/5/2011 2:16 PM, Silvio wrote: > Drop it. No. Your buddy there is making ridiculous claims and he's got nothing to back them up. > I spent 10 years programming Java (pre- and post-generics) and > moved to Scala three years ago. It's no contest, believe me. I don't care. I've got 20 years experience in this industry with nearly every type of programming language you can imagine and my fingers haven't fallen off yet. Look, if you like Scala better, bully for you. But I haven't seen anything yet to convince me to change, and this thread on that subject has been nothing but hyperbole and FUD. I have no reason to change, and "drop it" surely is not a logical argument that's going to cause me to change languages, or even consider it. > But as always, comparison of individual language features is pointless This much I will agree on. I was hoping to find some actual information. So far that is 100% lacking. > In my experience Scala rewrites of Java code shrink to 25%-50% of the > original size. Just curious: binary or source? I'm unclear which you mean. > To each his own. There is no point in starting another language war, and > I do not think super* was trying to do that. All he has to do is supply some logical Java examples. In a Java newsgroup, I think that's on topic.
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| From | Silvio <silvio@moc.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 09:41 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <4e14119a$0$21845$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #5876 |
On 07/06/2011 12:08 AM, markspace wrote: > On 7/5/2011 2:16 PM, Silvio wrote: > >> Drop it. > > > No. Your buddy there is making ridiculous claims and he's got nothing to > back them up. > Well, his remark that there are languages that demonstrate that static typing does not have to cause so much verbosity as Java does is quite easy to back up and he did name some examples. > >> I spent 10 years programming Java (pre- and post-generics) and >> moved to Scala three years ago. It's no contest, believe me. > > > I don't care. I've got 20 years experience in this industry with nearly > every type of programming language you can imagine and my fingers > haven't fallen off yet. Look, if you like Scala better, bully for you. > But I haven't seen anything yet to convince me to change, and this > thread on that subject has been nothing but hyperbole and FUD. Who said anything about you changing languages? The only thing super* said was that he disagreed with your statement about static typing. > > I have no reason to change, and "drop it" surely is not a logical > argument that's going to cause me to change languages, or even consider it. > I did not mean that in a demeaning way. I simply meant that saying Java is reasonably compact in general in comparison to said languages is a stand that is hard to defend. I am not urging anyone to change anything. Besides all the languages on the side I moved from C to C++ in '85 and then moved to Java in '97, and finally to Scala. Nothing religious, simply a matter of either a "better for me" language for the same platform (C -> C++, Java -> Scala) and one move to a different platform (C++ -> Java). > >> But as always, comparison of individual language features is pointless > > > This much I will agree on. I was hoping to find some actual information. > So far that is 100% lacking. > > >> In my experience Scala rewrites of Java code shrink to 25%-50% of the >> original size. > > > Just curious: binary or source? I'm unclear which you mean. > Not binary, there the inverse relation seems to exist. Scala source code is 2-4 times smaller, the binary output could easily be 2 times bigger. But I have not thoroughly verified that since I really care little about binary size as long as it stays within reasonable ranges. > >> To each his own. There is no point in starting another language war, and >> I do not think super* was trying to do that. > > > All he has to do is supply some logical Java examples. In a Java > newsgroup, I think that's on topic. > > I partly agree but I am not sure a newsgroup is a very good place to exchange and discuss large pieces of code. To be honest, type inference can reduce typing but the impact on size caused by TI alone is usually not dramatic. However, the mental aspect of not having to type redundant things like Map<Int,String> myMap = new Map<Int,String>(); myMap.put(123,"Java"); String myVal = myMap.get(123); and simply use val myMap = new Map[Int,String] myMap(123) = "Scala" val myVal = myMap(123) is very important to me. The 'val' keyword implies constants (in the Java 'const' sense), I could have used 'var' to create a mutable variable. IMHO, type inference in Scala is mostly important in combination with other language features. The notational compactness that closures in Scala can help realize is very much relying on type inference. That, combined with stuff like mixins, pattern matching and sensible parametrized types (I always hated Java's generics) made me go for Scala. I must admit that the more compact syntax in general was my early attractor. That's just me, I advice people who are happy with Java to keep on doing what they are doing. Not saying you are one off them, but a lot of Java programmers react like being stung by a bee as soon as someone brings up advantages of a different JVM language like Scala or Clojure and immediately start defending Java blindly. Java is still a valuable workhorse for me. Our legacy product (which most of our customers currently still use) needs to be maintianed and is all Java. For new stuff I personally prefer a different JVM language. Cheers, Silvio
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| From | "eye" <eye@mocka.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 09:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <4e14119a$0$218hute4fe514c@eye.news.org.null> |
| In reply to | #5884 |
<silvio@moc.com> posted as rebuttal of good advice: >On 07/06/2011 12:08 AM, markspace wrote: >> On 7/5/2011 2:16 PM, Silvio wrote: >> >>> Drop it. >> >> >> No. Your buddy there is making ridiculous claims and he's got nothing to >> back them up. >> > >Well, his remark that there are languages that demonstrate that static >typing does not have to cause so much verbosity as Java does is quite >easy to back up and he did name some examples. There is no short "polite" way to put this and even more so to a person coming out of Amsterdam,you guys have a reputation for a thick skull and a short wick/fuse in Usenet circles :-/ I am telling you it would be most wise for you to take very keen notice of the posts warning of Derbyshire's activity in groups, even go to some trouble of verifying the information from links.. if you have the skills. Paul is trolling you **and** any other sucker he can rope into his little games. You can put that in a Swiss Bank and get credit off it. What you can do is STFU when you see the X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org in a post, anywhere. At the end of the day that action will help the group you post to and pretty much hundreds of posters in over a dozen groups he haunts, taunting the suckers who believe the post worth a response. There is my message. -- D Eye ========= the flares die when you reject the poor coal
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| From | thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 05:37 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iv1acf$ofj$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #5885 |
On 06/07/2011 5:55 AM, eye wrote: 1> Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer 1> <silvio@moc.com> posted as rebuttal of good advice: What does your classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim have to do with Java, eye? Silvio's post is itself good advice and quite reasonable, eye. 1> There is no short "polite" way to put this and even more so 1> to a person coming out of Amsterdam,you guys have a 1> reputation for a thick skull and a short wick/fuse 1> in Usenet circles :-/ What does your racist opinion have to do with Java, eye? 1> I am telling you it would be most wise for you to 1> take very keen notice of the posts warning of 1> Derbyshire's activity in groups, even go to 1> some trouble of verifying the information 1> from links.. if you have the skills. Who is "Derbyshire", eye? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 1> Paul is trolling you **and** any other sucker he can rope 1> into his little games. Who is "Paul", eye? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 1> You can put that in a Swiss Bank and get credit off it. What does your money laundering operation have to do with Java, eye? 1> What you can do is STFU when you see the 1> X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org in a post, anywhere. What does your bad advice have to do with Java, eye? First you make a slur against the Dutch, then advise killfiling all users of a particular internet service provider. Suffering from bigotry problems, eye? 1> At the end of the day that action will help the group 1> you post to and pretty much hundreds of posters in over 1> a dozen groups he haunts, taunting the suckers who 1> believe the post worth a response. What does your haunting of newsgroups have to do with Java, eye? 1> There is my message. What does your message have to do with Java, eye? From where I'm sitting it looks like an off-topic flame and racist incitement to hatred, targeted at an absentee victim and posted where it's neither welcome nor relevant, eye.
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| From | "thoolen" <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 08:43 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iv1acf$0fj$9@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #5885 |
On 06/07/2011 5:55 AM, eye wrote: 66> Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer 66> <silvio@moc.com> posted as rebuttal of good advice: %^#*Q^%^#*Q^$*#! classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim %^#*Q^$*#! with Java, eye? Silvio's post is itself good advice and quite reasonable, eye. 66> There is no short "polite" way to put this and even more so 66> to a person coming out of Amsterdam,you guys have a 66> reputation for a thick skull and a short wick/fuse 66> in Usenet circles :-/ %^#*Q^%^#*Q^$*#! racist opinion %^#*Q^$*#! with Java, eye? 66> I am telling you it would be most wise for you to 66> take very keen notice of the posts warning of 66> Derbyshire's activity in groups, even go to 66> some trouble of verifying the information 66> from links.. if you have the skills. I am "Derbyshire", eye? %^#*Q^$666 in this newsgroup using that alias. 66> Paul is trolling you **and** any other sucker he can rope 66> into his little games. %^#*Q^$*#! "Paul", eye? %^#*Q^$666 in this newsgroup %^#*Q^$666 66> You can put that in a Swiss Bank and get credit off it. %^#*Q^$ %^#*Q^$*#! laundering operation %^#*Q^$*#! with Java, eye? 66> What you can do is STFU when you see the 66> X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org in a post, anywhere. %^#*Q^%^#*Q^$*#! bad advice %^#*Q^$*#! with Java, eye? First I make a slur against the Dutch, then ask for killfiling all users of a particular internet service provider. I suffer from bigotry problems, yes? 66> At the end of the day that action will help the group 66> you post to and pretty much hundreds of posters in over 66> a dozen groups he haunts, taunting the suckers who 66> believe the post worth a response. %^#*Q^%^#*Q^$*#! haunting of newsgroups %^#*Q^$*#! with Java, eye? 66> There is my message. %^#*Q^%^#*Q^$*#! message %^#*Q^$*#! with Java, eye? As I'm sitting on my ass laughing like an off-topic flame and racist inciting asshole it is my hatred, targeted at an absentee victim and posted where it's neither welcome nor relevant. I am expert at this function of madness. -- Paul Derbyshire
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| From | thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 22:30 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iv35ni$93c$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #5894 |
On 06/07/2011 8:43 AM, eye forged my From and wrote: 67> Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer 67> %^#*Q^%^#*Q^$*#! classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim 67> %^#*Q^$*#! with Java, eye? Suffering from line noise, eye? 67> Silvio's post is itself good advice and quite 67> reasonable, eye. Why are you telling yourself what I already told you, eye? 67> %^#*Q^%^#*Q^$*#! racist opinion %^#*Q^$*#! with Java, eye? Still suffering from line noise, eye? 67> I am "Derbyshire", eye? Why are you asking yourself if you are "Derbyshire", eye? Suffering from an identity crisis, eye? 67> %^#*Q^$666 in this newsgroup using that alias. Still suffering from line noise, eye? 67> %^#*Q^$*#! "Paul", eye? %^#*Q^$666 in this newsgroup %^#*Q^$666 Still suffering from line noise, eye? 67> %^#*Q^$ %^#*Q^$*#! laundering operation %^#*Q^$*#! with 67> Java, eye? Still suffering from line noise, eye? 67> %^#*Q^%^#*Q^$*#! bad advice %^#*Q^$*#! with Java, eye? Still suffering from line noise, eye? 67> First I make a slur against the Dutch, then ask for 67> killfiling all users of a particular internet service 67> provider. I suffer from bigotry problems, yes? Apparently, eye. Have you sought help for these problems yet, eye? And what do your ongoing bigotry problems have to do with Java, eye? 67> %^#*Q^%^#*Q^$*#! haunting of newsgroups %^#*Q^$*#! with 67> Java, eye? Still suffering from line noise, eye? 67> %^#*Q^%^#*Q^$*#! message %^#*Q^$*#! with Java, eye? Still suffering from line noise, eye? 67> As I'm sitting on my ass laughing like an off-topic flame 67> and racist inciting asshole it is my hatred, targeted at 67> an absentee victim and posted where it's neither welcome 67> nor relevant. What does your hatred of the Dutch have to do with Java, eye? 67> I am expert at this function of madness. What does your long familiarity with your own madness have to do with Java, eye? Your psychologist's couch would be a more appropriate venue than this newsgroup, eye. And get yourself a modem that works properly.
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| From | "Stefan Robacki" <noemail@noemail.foobar> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 00:04 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iuv008$fdh$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #5867 |
Silvio <silvio@moc.com> wrote: >On 07/05/2011 09:51 PM, markspace wrote: >> On 7/5/2011 11:13 AM, super.. wrote: >>> ConcurrentNavigableMap<QuuxscapeTuttifrutticatorGUIDInstance<String>, >>> List<FrobnicatorFactoryServiceProviderFactoryImpl<Integer,String>>> >> >> I'd like to see some actual examples from actual code, rather than these >> obvious straw-man arguments. > >Drop it. I spent 10 years programming Java (pre- and post-generics) and >moved to Scala three years ago. It's no contest, believe me. > >But as always, comparison of individual language features is pointless >and only gives wrong impressions. One would have to compare a larger >peace of Java and the equivalent Scala code (of good quality and with >enough explanation) to get a good idea of how they compare. > >In my experience Scala rewrites of Java code shrink to 25%-50% of the >original size. >In my opinion the result is also much more readable and self-describing >but the amount of logic-per-line-of-code is so much higher that others >feel exactly the opposite way. > >To each his own. There is no point in starting another language war, and >I do not think super* was trying to do that. > >Gr. Silvio You are trolled, Both. Meet Paul Derbyshire, forever nefarious as Seamus McRae the Vietnam veteran who threatened to sue any critic of his postings. Paul is also of a bother right now in comp.lang.lisp I have posted the signal there. From: KitKat <kitkat_11697@gmail.example.com> Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Why "lock" functionality is introduced for all the objects? Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 15:30:17 -0400 Organization: Nestle Lines: 52 Message-ID: <iuvoo8$fbj$1@speranza.aioe.org> The history for this chap is found easily on Google Groups, there is no pain in knowing him. The fellow is quite crazy harmless in Usenet. http://groups.google.com/groups/search?as_q=derbyshire+ carleton&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=100&scoring=&lr=& as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny= 2011&as_maxd=1&as_maxm=1&as_maxy=2011&as_ugroup=& as_usubject=&as_uauthors=&safe=off derbyshire carleton Results 1 - 100 of about 5,730 for derbyshire carleton. I have seen many lists of names put to Paul Derbyshire as the clown poster. I have built my own for the close use of others. Exists there are many more. Nebulous <nebulous99@gmail.com> Jerry Gerrone <scuzwalla@gmail.com> Extravagan <extravagan@frogsoup.xelon.com> De Lurker <delancey_s113@harvard.nospam.invalid> Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> Series Expansion <serexp1@gmail.com> "Spock" <spock@starfleet.ufp.null> Orange Green <og_b1823@netmail.zoog.com.au> Willy Wonka <w.wonk1028_x@gmail.xyz> <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> Zapotec <z_gib@wav.com> Nancy 4 <n4@gmai1.c0m> thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> 3x+rav4gan <3x7r4vag4n@fr0gs0up.x3l0n.c0m> KitKat <kitkat_11697@gmail.example.com> Seamus MacRae <smacrae319@live.ca.nospam> -- Stefan
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| From | thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 05:45 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iv1ari$pn3$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #5879 |
On 06/07/2011 12:04 AM, Stefan Robacki wrote: 2> Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer 2> You are trolled, Both. What does your trolling have to do with Java, Robacki? 2> Meet Paul Derbyshire, forever nefarious as Seamus McRae 2> the Vietnam veteran who threatened to sue any critic of his postings. Who are "Paul Derbyshire" and "Seamus McRae", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using either alias. 2> Paul is also of a bother right now in comp.lang.lisp Who is "Paul", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 2> I have posted the signal there. What does your classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim have to do with Java, Robacki? The only thing you have posted to comp.lang.lisp is an off-topic troll nearly identical to this one, Robacki. 2> From: KitKat <kitkat_11697@gmail.example.com> 2> Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer 2> Subject: Re: Why "lock" functionality is introduced for all the objects? 2> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 15:30:17 -0400 2> Organization: Nestle 2> Lines: 52 2> Message-ID: <iuvoo8$fbj$1@speranza.aioe.org> What about KitKat's on-topic post regarding Java object monitors, Robacki? Unless you mean to point to an example of useful and good-faith participation in this newsgroup to contrast with your own "contribution" here of an off-topic troll, Robacki. 2> The history for this chap is found easily on Google Groups, there is no 2> pain in knowing him. Who is "this chap", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 2> The fellow is quite crazy harmless in Usenet. What does your harmless craziness have to do with Java, Robacki? What does your ridiculously long URL have to do with Java, Robacki? 2> derbyshire carleton 2> Results 1 - 100 of about 5,730 for derbyshire carleton. What do the names of two English towns have to do with Java, Robacki? 2> I have seen many lists of names put to Paul Derbyshire 2> as the clown poster. I have built my own for the 2> close use of others. Exists there are many more. Who is "Paul Derbyshire", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 2> Nebulous <nebulous99@gmail.com> Who is "Nebulous", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 2> Jerry Gerrone <scuzwalla@gmail.com> Who is "Jerry Gerrone", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 2> Extravagan <extravagan@frogsoup.xelon.com> Who is "Extravagan", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 2> De Lurker <delancey_s113@harvard.nospam.invalid> Who is "De Lurker", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 2> Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> Who is "Sulfide Eater", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 2> Series Expansion <serexp1@gmail.com> Who is "Series Expansion", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 2> "Spock" <spock@starfleet.ufp.null> Who is "Spock", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. Perhaps you should be looking in the movie theater or on TV instead of in comp.lang.java.programmer, Robacki. 2> Orange Green <og_b1823@netmail.zoog.com.au> Who is "Orange Green", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 2> Willy Wonka <w.wonk1028_x@gmail.xyz> Who is "Willy Wonka", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. Perhaps you should be looking in the book store instead of in comp.lang.java.programmer, Robacki. 2> <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantati What does that have to do with Java, Robacki? 2> Zapotec <z_gib@wav.com> Who is "Zapotec", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 2> Nancy 4 <n4@gmai1.c0m> Who is "Nancy 4", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 2> thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> What does my email address have to do with Java, Robacki? 2> 3x+rav4gan <3x7r4vag4n@fr0gs0up.x3l0n.c0m> Who is "3x+rav4gan", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. 2> KitKat <kitkat_11697@gmail.example.com> What does KitKat's email address have to do with Java, Robacki? 2> Seamus MacRae <smacrae319@live.ca.nospam> Who is "Seamus MacRae", Robacki? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias.
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| From | thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 08:26 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iv2ari$5n3$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #5879 |
On 06/07/2011 12:04 AM, Stefan Robacki wrote: 4> Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer 4> You are trolled, Both. %^#*&^L!&** %^#* trolling %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? 4> Meet Paul Derbyshire, forever nefarious as Seamus McRae 4> the Vietnam veteran who threatened to sue any critic of his postings. Who are "Paul Derbyshire" and "Seamus McRae", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** either alias. 4> Paul is also of a bother right now in comp.lang.lisp %^#*&^L!&** "Paul", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. 4> I have posted the signal there. %^#*&^L!&** %^#* classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? The only thing you have posted to comp.lang.lisp is an off-topic troll nearly identical to this one, Robacki. 4> From: KitKat <kitkat_11697@gmail.example.com> 4> Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer 4> Subject: Re: Why "lock" functionality is introduced for all the objects? 4> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 15:30:17 -0400 4> Organization: Nestle 4> Lines: 52 4> Message-ID: <iuvoo8$fbj$1@speranza.aioe.org> What about KitKat's on-topic post regarding Java object monitors, Robacki? Unless you mean to point to an example of useful and good-faith participation in this newsgroup to contrast with %^#* own "contribution" here of an off-topic troll, Robacki. 4> The history for this chap is found easily on Google Groups, there is no 4> pain in knowing him. %^#*&^L!&** "this chap", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. 4> The fellow is quite crazy harmless in Usenet. %^#*&^L!&** %^#* harmless craziness %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** %^#* ridiculously long URL %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? 4> derbyshire carleton 4> Results 1 - 100 of about 5,730 for derbyshire carleton. %^#*Q^$ the names of two English towns %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? 4> I have seen many lists of names put to Paul Derbyshire 4> as the clown poster. I have built my own for the 4> close use of others. Exists there are many more. %^#*&^L!&** "Paul Derbyshire", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. 4> Nebulous <nebulous99@gmail.com> %^#*&^L!&** "Nebulous", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. 4> Jerry Gerrone <scuzwalla@gmail.com> %^#*&^L!&** "Jerry Gerrone", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. 4> Extravagan <extravagan@frogsoup.xelon.com> %^#*&^L!&** "Extravagan", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. 4> De Lurker <delancey_s113@harvard.nospam.invalid> %^#*&^L!&** "De Lurker", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. 4> Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> %^#*&^L!&** "Sulfide Eater", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. 4> Series Expansion <serexp1@gmail.com> %^#*&^L!&** "Series Expansion", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. 4> "Spock" <spock@starfleet.ufp.null> %^#*&^L!&** "Spock", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Perhaps %^#*&^L!&**in the movie theater or on TV %^#*&^L!&** in comp.lang.java.programmer, Robacki. 4> Orange Green <og_b1823@netmail.zoog.com.au> %^#*&^L!&** "Orange Green", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. 4> Willy Wonka <w.wonk1028_x@gmail.xyz> %^#*&^L!&** "Willy Wonka", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Perhaps %^#*&^L!&**in the book store %^#*&^L!&** in comp.lang.java.programmer, Robacki. 4> <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantati %^#*&^L!&** that %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? 4> Zapotec <z_gib@wav.com> %^#*&^L!&** "Zapotec", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. 4> Nancy 4 <n4@gmai1.c0m> %^#*&^L!&** "Nancy 4", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. 4> thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> %^#*&^L!&** my email address %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? 4> 3x+rav4gan <3x7r4vag4n@fr0gs0up.x3l0n.c0m> %^#*&^L!&** "3x+rav4gan", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias. 4> KitKat <kitkat_11697@gmail.example.com> %^#*&^L!&** KitKat's email address %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? 4> Seamus MacRae <smacrae319@live.ca.nospam> %^#*&^L!&** "Seamus MacRae", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** that alias.
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| From | thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 22:36 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iv364b$9ne$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #5893 |
On 06/07/2011 8:26 AM, Stefan Robacki forged my From line and wrote: 32> Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer 32> %^#*&^L!&** %^#* trolling %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? As I said in response to your similarly mangled forgery in comp.lang.lisp, get yourself a new modem because yours is obviously dying by inches. 32> Who are "Paul Derbyshire" and "Seamus McRae", Robacki? You should know, since you're the one who brought those names up in conversation, Robacki. 32> %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup %^#*&^L!&** either alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "Paul", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** %^#* classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim 32> %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> The only thing you have posted to comp.lang.lisp is 32> an off-topic troll nearly identical to this one, Robacki. Why are you telling yourself that, Robacki? Suffering from an identity crisis, Robacki? 32> What about KitKat's on-topic post regarding Java object monitors, 32> Robacki? You tell me. You're the one who posted that quotation from KitKat's post. 32> Unless you mean to point to an example of useful and good-faith 32> participation in this newsgroup to contrast with %^#* own "contribution" 32> here of an off-topic troll, Robacki. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "this chap", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** %^#* harmless craziness %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** %^#* ridiculously long URL %^#*&^L!&** with Java, 32> Robacki? Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*Q^$ the names of two English towns %^#*&^L!&** with Java, 32> Robacki? Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "Paul Derbyshire", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "Nebulous", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "Jerry Gerrone", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "Extravagan", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "De Lurker", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "Sulfide Eater", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "Series Expansion", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "Spock", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Perhaps %^#*&^L!&**in the movie theater or 32> on TV %^#*&^L!&** in comp.lang.java.programmer, Robacki. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "Orange Green", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "Willy Wonka", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Perhaps %^#*&^L!&**in the book store 32> %^#*&^L!&** in comp.lang.java.programmer, Robacki. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** that %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "Zapotec", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "Nancy 4", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** my email address %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "3x+rav4gan", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** KitKat's email address %^#*&^L!&** with Java, Robacki? Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? 32> %^#*&^L!&** "Seamus MacRae", Robacki? %^#*&^L!&** in this newsgroup 32> %^#*&^L!&** that alias. Still suffering from line noise, Robacki? Seek technical and professional help, Robacki. Before it's too late.
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| From | "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 06:09 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <953656b6-5cef-4ce9-ac42-b4c115f09e41@z7g2000prh.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #5879 |
markspace <-@.> writes: 1> Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy 1> Possible, sure. Although the M.O. of "super" doesn't really match 1> Paul's much, imo. Maybe we've trolled even if it's not Paul. The M.O. of "Stefan Robacki" matches those of Tim Harrison, Sulfide Eater, Chad Carmichael, Extravagan, Meerkats, Purpleswandir, Heike Svensson, Derek Yancey, Zxcvbnm, Greg Kelly, Willy Wonka, Nougat Surprise, Mister Whiskers, John Harbl, Alice, Cthun, Boojum, Katie Gerrolds, Julie Faramis, Henry Harrison, Nancy 4, and supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations, markspace. Notice how your follow-up got redirected to comp.os.os2.advocacy. 1> He's been here under several names. Normally I can spot the obvious 1> posting style. "Super" was at least half-way cogent; Paul usually 1> isn't. Also "Super" obviously isn't alone in his feelings on this subject. Why not just spot the NNTP-Posting-Host, markspace? 1> Anyway, language comparisons are a bad idea, but Java improvements are 1> fine with me, as long as they make some sort of sense. I'm still not 1> conviced this one does make sense, but I'll listen if anyone has some 1> decent arguments. So far, the arguments have been kinda dreky. What do those arguments have to do with OS/2, markspace?
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| From | supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 22:40 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iv36a7$a33$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #5898 |
On 06/07/2011 9:09 AM, tholen@antispam.ham wrote: > markspace<-@.> writes: > > 1> Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy > > 1> Possible, sure. Although the M.O. of "super" doesn't really match > 1> Paul's much, imo. Maybe we've trolled even if it's not Paul. > > The M.O. of "Stefan Robacki" matches those of Tim Harrison, Sulfide > Eater, Chad Carmichael, Extravagan, Meerkats, Purpleswandir, Heike > Svensson, Derek Yancey, Zxcvbnm, Greg Kelly, Willy Wonka, Nougat > Surprise, Mister Whiskers, John Harbl, Alice, Cthun, Boojum, Katie > Gerrolds, Julie Faramis, Henry Harrison, Nancy 4, and > supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations, > markspace. Hey, what?! Why am I in this list? > Why not just spot the NNTP-Posting-Host, markspace? Lots of people use AIOE, tholen. You're crazy if you think that will identify individual, separate posters. If AIOE put an IP address into that header, perhaps, but it doesn't.
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| From | John Doe <jdoe@usenetlove.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-14 06:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <4e1e91b7$0$20332$c3e8da3$9deca2c3@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #5946 |
supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> wrote: > On 06/07/2011 9:09 AM, tholen antispam.ham wrote: >> markspace<- .> writes: >> >> 1> Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy >> >> 1> Possible, sure. Although the M.O. of "super" doesn't really match >> 1> Paul's much, imo. Maybe we've trolled even if it's not Paul. >> >> The M.O. of "Stefan Robacki" matches those of Tim Harrison, Sulfide >> Eater, Chad Carmichael, Extravagan, Meerkats, Purpleswandir, Heike >> Svensson, Derek Yancey, Zxcvbnm, Greg Kelly, Willy Wonka, Nougat >> Surprise, Mister Whiskers, John Harbl, Alice, Cthun, Boojum, Katie >> Gerrolds, Julie Faramis, Henry Harrison, Nancy 4, and >> supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations, >> markspace. > > Hey, what?! Why am I in this list? Maybe because you are a nym-shifting troll with an obnoxious ID. -- >> Why not just spot the NNTP-Posting-Host, markspace? > > Lots of people use AIOE, tholen. You're crazy if you think that will > identify individual, separate posters. If AIOE put an IP address into > that header, perhaps, but it doesn't. > > Regular nym-shifting > Path: news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!news-xfer.nntp.sonic.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder2.enfer-du-nord.net!gegeweb.org!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail > From: supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> > Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer > Subject: Re: StringBuilder Difficulties > Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 22:40:05 -0400 > Organization: supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations > Lines: 23 > Message-ID: <iv36a7$a33$1 speranza.aioe.org> > References: <c4tk07dv1pq7u8k32qd6b7o1brc2rj8r30 4ax.com> <irln07dveti624e71v8viderf0hjtudue5 4ax.com> <9744m8FpnhU3 mid.individual.net> <6cqp07tiug2nu8u6ififvvek1694fkpfi1 4ax.com> <976q3jF3etU2 mid.individual.net> <e9ps07h56utkftkp8fcarm7uhkk5t999le 4ax.com> <978bv1FnqaU1 mid.individual.net> <gfk317di8imjcuvfgrn2mgtug1cne9m1m9 4ax.com> <97ejjfFrh1U1 mid.individual.net> <iuu9ka$o4p$1 speranza.aioe.org> <iuveal$r32$1 dont-email.me> <iuvk96$3bq$1 speranza.aioe.org> <iuvq0h$e95$1 dont-email.me> <iuv008$fdh$1 speranza.aioe.org> <iv0one$skq$1 dont-email.me> <953656b6-5cef-4ce9-ac42-b4c115f09e41 z7g2000prh.googlegroups.com> > NNTP-Posting-Host: 9zMfMLj7Kt4oubZ/fw1Ukg.user.speranza.aioe.org > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Complaints-To: abuse aioe.org > User-Agent: WinVN 0.99.12z (x86 32bit) > X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 >
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| From | supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-14 02:58 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ivm42b$994$2@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #6180 |
On 14/07/2011 2:50 AM, John Doe wrote: > supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations >> Hey, what?! Why am I in this list? > > Maybe because you are a nym-shifting troll with an obnoxious ID. What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java, Doe?
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| From | Jane Doe <jdoe@love.in.d.jungle.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-14 10:20 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <4e1efb21$0$13439$c3e8da3$aae71a0a@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #6182 |
supercalifxxxxPaul Derbyshire - Pembroke Ontario CA of NNTP-Posting-Host: i/Qx8aG7GhfvVWTGQz7VLw.user.speranza.aioe.org did make foam with: >On 14/07/2011 2:50 AM, John Doe wrote: >> supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations >>> Hey, what?! Why am I in this list? >> >> Maybe because you are a nym-shifting troll with an obnoxious ID. > >What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java, Doe? suffering from comprehension challenges much, idiot. Java related, Derbyshire? try on the fact you cannot code Derbyshire into an AIOE post as you shot yourself big time in directing AIOE to provide a word ban for Derbyshire. yeh, that's right. it is news all over. Derbyshire the lamer whined to AIOE and AIOE gave him what he wanted and now Derbyshire is fucked in using "reply-to" without doing a whole heap of editing. classic "usenet suicide" act you got there Derbyshire hear this sucker. yall is fucked with these Java groups. credibility is zero with tracking easy on your posting tag for AIOE and now Google. what yall gonna do Squirrel BOY. hands over ears and stamp ya lil Derbyshire feet till the guys in white coats rock up! BWAaaAAAAAAAAAAAHhHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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