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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #5436 > unrolled thread

CLI Java Glitch

Started byGene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net>
First post2011-06-20 14:24 -0700
Last post2011-06-23 15:13 -0400
Articles 16 on this page of 96 — 22 participants

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Contents

  CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-20 14:24 -0700
    Re: CLI Java Glitch Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-06-20 14:48 -0700
    Re: CLI Java Glitch Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-20 18:49 -0300
    Re: CLI Java Glitch Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-20 22:09 +0000
      Re: CLI Java Glitch Esmond Pitt <esmond.pitt@bigpond.com> - 2011-06-21 10:16 +1000
        Re: CLI Java Glitch Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-06-21 22:49 +0100
          Re: CLI Java Glitch Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-21 15:11 -0700
            Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-21 16:37 -0700
              Re: CLI Java Glitch Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-21 17:54 -0700
                Re: CLI Java Glitch Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 20:58 -0400
                  Re: CLI Java Glitch Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-07-21 18:14 -0700
                    Re: CLI Java Glitch Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-22 17:19 -0400
                      Re: CLI Java Glitch Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-07-22 19:45 -0700
                        Re: CLI Java Glitch Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-22 23:17 -0400
                          Re: CLI Java Glitch Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-07-22 20:25 -0700
                            Re: CLI Java Glitch Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-22 23:38 -0400
                              Re: CLI Java Glitch lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-23 09:09 -0700
                    Re: CLI Java Glitch Esmond Pitt <esmond.pitt@bigpond.com> - 2011-07-22 18:41 +1000
                      Re: CLI Java Glitch Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-07-25 11:25 +0000
              Re: CLI Java Glitch lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-06-22 09:02 -0700
                Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-22 10:12 -0700
                  Re: CLI Java Glitch Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-06-22 10:39 -0700
            Re: CLI Java Glitch Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-06-22 09:50 -0700
            Re: CLI Java Glitch Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-06-22 19:44 +0100
              Re: CLI Java Glitch Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-23 12:31 -0400
                Re: CLI Java Glitch Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-06-23 23:04 +0100
                  Re: CLI Java Glitch Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-23 21:40 -0700
                  Re: CLI Java Glitch Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-24 09:43 -0400
            Re: CLI Java Glitch Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-23 12:24 -0400
              Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-23 14:32 -0700
              Re: CLI Java Glitch lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-06-24 09:12 -0700
                Re: CLI Java Glitch Bent C Dalager <bcd@pvv.ntnu.no> - 2011-06-24 22:49 +0000
                  Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-26 20:29 -0700
          Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-21 16:29 -0700
          Re: CLI Java Glitch Nigel Wade <nmw-news@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2011-06-22 11:54 +0100
            Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-22 10:16 -0700
              Re: CLI Java Glitch Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-22 11:06 -0700
                Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-22 11:46 -0700
                  Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-22 12:50 -0700
                    Re: CLI Java Glitch Nigel Wade <nmw-news@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2011-06-23 15:23 +0100
                      Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-23 08:58 -0700
                    Re: CLI Java Glitch lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-06-24 08:58 -0700
                      Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-24 11:36 -0700
                  Re: CLI Java Glitch Paul Cager <paul.cager@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-22 14:45 -0700
                  Re: CLI Java Glitch Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-06-22 23:29 +0100
                    Re: CLI Java Glitch Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-06-22 18:08 -0700
                    Re: CLI Java Glitch Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-06-23 23:20 +0100
                      Re: CLI Java Glitch Esmond Pitt <esmond.pitt@bigpond.com> - 2011-06-24 10:28 +1000
                        Re: CLI Java Glitch Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-06-25 22:58 +0100
                          Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-26 20:31 -0700
                    Re: CLI Java Glitch lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-06-24 09:00 -0700
                  Re: CLI Java Glitch Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-22 17:33 -0400
                  Re: CLI Java Glitch Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-22 17:38 -0400
                  Re: CLI Java Glitch Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-22 17:41 -0400
            Re: CLI Java Glitch Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-06-22 20:00 +0100
              Re: CLI Java Glitch Nigel Wade <nmw-news@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2011-06-23 15:18 +0100
            Re: CLI Java Glitch Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-22 17:29 -0400
          Re: CLI Java Glitch Esmond Pitt <esmond.pitt@bigpond.com> - 2011-06-23 11:40 +1000
            Re: CLI Java Glitch Esmond Pitt <esmond.pitt@bigpond.com> - 2011-06-23 20:21 +1000
            Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-23 09:00 -0700
              Re: CLI Java Glitch Esmond Pitt <esmond.pitt@bigpond.com> - 2011-06-24 10:24 +1000
      Re: CLI Java Glitch Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-06-21 22:52 +0100
    Re: CLI Java Glitch Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-20 19:11 -0400
      Re: CLI Java Glitch Lew Bloch <lewisbloch@google.com> - 2011-06-20 16:25 -0700
        Re: CLI Java Glitch Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-20 19:45 -0400
          Re: CLI Java Glitch Lew Bloch <lewisbloch@google.com> - 2011-06-20 18:28 -0700
          Ping: Lew Bloch Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-20 23:26 -0400
            Re: Ping: Lew Bloch Lew Bloch <lewisbloch@google.com> - 2011-06-21 10:25 -0700
              Re: Ping: Lew Bloch Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-21 14:36 -0400
        Re: CLI Java Glitch Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-20 17:02 -0700
          Re: CLI Java Glitch Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-20 20:37 -0400
            Re: CLI Java Glitch Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-20 20:44 -0400
              Re: CLI Java Glitch Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-06-21 22:45 +0100
    Re: CLI Java Glitch Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-06-20 16:55 -0700
      Re: CLI Java Glitch Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-06-20 20:44 -0400
        Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-20 19:26 -0700
        Re: CLI Java Glitch Paul Cager <paul.cager@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-21 02:34 -0700
          Re: CLI Java Glitch Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-06-21 16:50 +0200
          Re: CLI Java Glitch "Gavino" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-21 21:35 +0200
        Re: CLI Java Glitch Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-06-21 11:59 -0700
          Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-21 13:03 -0700
            Re: CLI Java Glitch BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-21 14:21 -0700
        Re: CLI Java Glitch Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-22 17:45 -0400
    Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-20 19:29 -0700
    Re: CLI Java Glitch Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-06-21 22:42 +0100
      Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-21 14:48 -0700
      Re: CLI Java Glitch Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-22 17:47 -0400
    Re: CLI Java Glitch Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-21 21:52 -0400
      Re: CLI Java Glitch Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-22 07:56 -0300
        Re: CLI Java Glitch Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-22 08:02 -0400
          Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-22 10:18 -0700
            Re: CLI Java Glitch Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-22 15:01 -0400
              Re: CLI Java Glitch Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-22 12:54 -0700
            Re: CLI Java Glitch Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-22 18:52 -0300
              Re: CLI Java Glitch Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-22 17:50 -0400
            Re: CLI Java Glitch Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-23 15:13 -0400

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#5481

FromGene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net>
Date2011-06-21 13:03 -0700
Message-ID<b6u10716kdpaf31nda8pltinuteeuek7g6@4ax.com>
In reply to#5476
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:59:11 -0700, Roedy Green
<see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 20:44:04 -0400, Eric Sosman
><esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
>someone who said :
>
>>  Any bets on when we'll see a font-sensitive programming language?
>
>Regexes would be a heck of a lot simpler if the expressions were font
>or colour sensitive. You would use one colour for data and one for
>commands.  Instead of \n you would type that see echoed some sort of
>single-width newline glyph.

     Huh?  Which is the data, and which is the commands?  It is all
characters to be parsed.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#5487

FromBGB <cr88192@hotmail.com>
Date2011-06-21 14:21 -0700
Message-ID<itr28d$ruf$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#5481
On 6/21/2011 1:03 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:59:11 -0700, Roedy Green
> <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid>  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 20:44:04 -0400, Eric Sosman
>> <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid>  wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
>> someone who said :
>>
>>>   Any bets on when we'll see a font-sensitive programming language?
>>
>> Regexes would be a heck of a lot simpler if the expressions were font
>> or colour sensitive. You would use one colour for data and one for
>> commands.  Instead of \n you would type that see echoed some sort of
>> single-width newline glyph.
>
>       Huh?  Which is the data, and which is the commands?  It is all
> characters to be parsed.
>

presumably, the editor would insert some sort of markup or annotations, 
and the compiler would parse these.

the issue though would be to avoid being overly slowed down by the types 
of user-interface design issues which plague traditional HTML WYSIWYG 
editors...

hmm... source code as HTML, and using Mozilla/SeaMonkey Composer as the 
text editor...

imagine the fun...

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#6424

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2011-07-22 17:45 -0400
Message-ID<4e29ef81$0$311$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#5451
On 6/20/2011 8:44 PM, Eric Sosman wrote:
> On 6/20/2011 7:55 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:24:53 -0700, Gene Wirchenko<genew@ocis.net>
>> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>>
>>> C:\cbs2dev\test>java helloworld
>>> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: helloworld
>>> (wrong nam
>>
>> see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/helloworld.html
>>
>> Java is case sensitive. Case matters.
>
> Any bets on when we'll see a font-sensitive programming language?

It will not happen as long as source code is expected to be
Unicode or earlier text.

Arne

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#5454

FromGene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net>
Date2011-06-20 19:29 -0700
Message-ID<4c0007hndlrkpn1t7l474r0fu6djica8ba@4ax.com>
In reply to#5436
On 20 Jun 2011 21:38:36 GMT, ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
wrote:

>Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> writes:
>>class HelloWorld
>>>java helloworld
>
>  Can't you see?

     Yes, I can.  How about you?  Did you miss this line near the end?
          C:\cbs2dev\test>java HelloWorld
After all, it was the whole point of my post.

     I made the case error precisely once.  It is easy to do.  I
mainly run my program from within the IDE where I need not type the
classname.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#5488

FromTom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li>
Date2011-06-21 22:42 +0100
Message-ID<alpine.DEB.2.00.1106212240380.6476@urchin.earth.li>
In reply to#5436
On Mon, 20 Jun 2011, Gene Wirchenko wrote:

> Dear Java'ers:
>
>     Given
>
> class HelloWorld
>   {
>   public static void main(String[] args)
>      {
>      System.out.println("Hello, world!");
>      }
>   }
>
> is there any way around the following?
>
> C:\cbs2dev\test>java helloworld
> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: helloworld
> (wrong nam
> e: HelloWorld)
>        at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method)
>        at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClassCond(Unknown Source)
>        at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source)
>        at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source)
>        at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source)
>        at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$000(Unknown Source)
>        at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source)
>        at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
>        at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source)
>        at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
>        at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
>        at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
> Could not find the main class: helloworld.  Program will exit.

Yes:

http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora

I'm serious. Your operating system is broken. Get one that isn't.

tom

-- 
No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river
and he's not the same man. -- Heraclitus

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#5490

FromGene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net>
Date2011-06-21 14:48 -0700
Message-ID<r84207hpss5n1au4pj4h5s5l2bb95khe7p@4ax.com>
In reply to#5488
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 22:42:26 +0100, Tom Anderson
<twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:

[snip]

>Yes:
>
>http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora
>
>I'm serious. Your operating system is broken. Get one that isn't.

     I do not nuke mosquitos.  If I switched operating systems every
time that something did not work quite as I wanted, I would waste a
lot of time.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#6425

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2011-07-22 17:47 -0400
Message-ID<4e29efdd$0$311$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#5488
On 6/21/2011 5:42 PM, Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jun 2011, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>> Dear Java'ers:
>>
>> Given
>>
>> class HelloWorld
>> {
>> public static void main(String[] args)
>> {
>> System.out.println("Hello, world!");
>> }
>> }
>>
>> is there any way around the following?
>>
>> C:\cbs2dev\test>java helloworld
>> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: helloworld
>> (wrong nam
>> e: HelloWorld)
>> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method)
>> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClassCond(Unknown Source)
>> at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source)
>> at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source)
>> at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source)
>> at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$000(Unknown Source)
>> at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source)
>> at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
>> at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source)
>> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
>> at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
>> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
>> Could not find the main class: helloworld. Program will exit.
>
> Yes:
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora

He would get a different exception, but still an exception, so ...

Arne

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#5505

FromJeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date2011-06-21 21:52 -0400
Message-ID<itrhj7$idp$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#5436
On 06/20/2011 05:24 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> Dear Java'ers:
>
>       Given
>
> class HelloWorld
>     {
>     public static void main(String[] args)
>        {
>        System.out.println("Hello, world!");
>        }
>     }
>
> is there any way around the following?
>
> C:\cbs2dev\test>java helloworld
> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: helloworld
> (wrong nam
> e: HelloWorld)

It seems so far the consensus for a "way around" is
some variation on the theme of "wrapper script".

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#5519

FromArved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca>
Date2011-06-22 07:56 -0300
Message-ID<KTjMp.3410$2K6.3271@newsfe05.iad>
In reply to#5505
On 11-06-21 10:52 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> On 06/20/2011 05:24 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>> Dear Java'ers:
>>
>>       Given
>>
>> class HelloWorld
>>     {
>>     public static void main(String[] args)
>>        {
>>        System.out.println("Hello, world!");
>>        }
>>     }
>>
>> is there any way around the following?
>>
>> C:\cbs2dev\test>java helloworld
>> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: helloworld
>> (wrong nam
>> e: HelloWorld)
> 
> It seems so far the consensus for a "way around" is
> some variation on the theme of "wrapper script".
> 
That may be so, but it's not unanimous. Another camp, and I'm in it, is
happy to leave things as is.

Joe Average Computer User doesn't normally open up a terminal or a
command prompt and run Java commands. So this is really a discussion
about making a simple thing easier for _techie_ types. I don't think it
warrants the effort, and in some ways it introduces problems where none
existed before. Simplify the issue for some programmers on some systems;
complicate it for other programmers on other systems. I don't agree.

AHS

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#5521

FromJeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date2011-06-22 08:02 -0400
Message-ID<itslba$gl2$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#5519
On 06/22/2011 06:56 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> On 11-06-21 10:52 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> On 06/20/2011 05:24 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>
> That may be so, but it's not unanimous. Another camp, and I'm in it, is
> happy to leave things as is.
>
> Joe Average Computer User doesn't normally open up a terminal or a
> command prompt and run Java commands. So this is really a discussion
> about making a simple thing easier for _techie_ types. I don't think it
> warrants the effort, and in some ways it introduces problems where none
> existed before. Simplify the issue for some programmers on some systems;
> complicate it for other programmers on other systems. I don't agree.

I read the OP as wanting to make a simple thing easier for_Gene 
Wirchenko_. Others seem to be addressing a request to "fix" the java 
executable. Maybe Lew is right; we must be precise, precise, precise!

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#5530

FromGene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net>
Date2011-06-22 10:18 -0700
Message-ID<os8407dhc2ghbuch74mfiivhsles1f6qq8@4ax.com>
In reply to#5521
On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:02:25 -0400, Jeff Higgins
<jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

[snip]

>I read the OP as wanting to make a simple thing easier for_Gene 
>Wirchenko_. Others seem to be addressing a request to "fix" the java 
>executable. Maybe Lew is right; we must be precise, precise, precise!

     Of course I want to make it easier for myself!  That is why most
of use who use computers use computers.

     Look at it this way.  If Java were being spec'ed right now, would
you have an objection to what I propose?  Why not make it easier?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#5536

FromJeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date2011-06-22 15:01 -0400
Message-ID<ittdsp$5ao$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#5530
On 06/22/2011 01:18 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:02:25 -0400, Jeff Higgins
> <jeff@invalid.invalid>  wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> I read the OP as wanting to make a simple thing easier for_Gene
>> Wirchenko_. Others seem to be addressing a request to "fix" the java
>> executable. Maybe Lew is right; we must be precise, precise, precise!
>
>       Of course I want to make it easier for myself!  That is why most
> of use who use computers use computers.

That is why I proposed a personal solution.

>       Look at it this way.  If Java were being spec'ed right now,

The behavior under discussion has been specified and is implemented and 
can now only be re-specified and implemented.

> would you have an objection to what I propose?

Yes because it would break a lot of others stuff.

Why not make it easier?

Back to the personal solution.

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#5542

FromGene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net>
Date2011-06-22 12:54 -0700
Message-ID<6uh407hqqfhm68t2eio89of2ftm9sk3vdb@4ax.com>
In reply to#5536
On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:01:20 -0400, Jeff Higgins
<jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 06/22/2011 01:18 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:

[snip]

>>       Look at it this way.  If Java were being spec'ed right now,
>
>The behavior under discussion has been specified and is implemented and 
>can now only be re-specified and implemented.
>
>> would you have an objection to what I propose?
>
>Yes because it would break a lot of others stuff.

     What stuff?

     "If Java were being spec'ed right now", then nothing would get
broken.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#5552

FromArved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca>
Date2011-06-22 18:52 -0300
Message-ID<sutMp.4018$g12.1513@newsfe20.iad>
In reply to#5530
On 11-06-22 02:18 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:02:25 -0400, Jeff Higgins
> <jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
>> I read the OP as wanting to make a simple thing easier for_Gene 
>> Wirchenko_. Others seem to be addressing a request to "fix" the java 
>> executable. Maybe Lew is right; we must be precise, precise, precise!
> 
>      Of course I want to make it easier for myself!  That is why most
> of use who use computers use computers.
> 
>      Look at it this way.  If Java were being spec'ed right now, would
> you have an objection to what I propose?  Why not make it easier?
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Gene Wirchenko

If I were spec'ing Java right now, I'd be muckling onto some C# ideas as
far as packaging and structure go: folder and file names don't have to
match namespace names or class names, and partial class/interface
definitions (and partial methods for that matter) are available.

AHS

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#6426

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2011-07-22 17:50 -0400
Message-ID<4e29f0b6$0$311$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#5552
On 6/22/2011 5:52 PM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> If I were spec'ing Java right now, I'd be muckling onto some C# ideas as
> far as packaging and structure go: folder and file names don't have to
> match namespace names or class names, and partial class/interface
> definitions (and partial methods for that matter) are available.

The Java package structure source code structure dependency can be a bit
cumbersome to work with, but it does what I assume it was created for.
You can always find the source code (within the project). With the
free style you have to cross your fingers that the developer actually
followed a reasonable practice.

Partial classes are great for generated code. But there are not
much tradition in the Java world for having IDE's generate code
based on WYSIWYG.

Arne

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#5641

FromMichael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com>
Date2011-06-23 15:13 -0400
Message-ID<iu23to0uja@news6.newsguy.com>
In reply to#5530
Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> 
>      Look at it this way.  If Java were being spec'ed right now, would
> you have an objection to what I propose?  Why not make it easier?

Yes, because it misunderstands the nature of what the java executable
is doing in that use case (as I noted in another message, which I
believe was posted after you wrote the one I'm quoting here, so you
won't have seen it).

When you run "java foo", you are asking the java executable to create
a JVM instance, load a class named "foo", instantiate it, find its
"main" method, and execute it.

As it happens, on most OSes, when the java executable is asked to load
a class and is not given any other information about where that class
resides, it searches a configurable list of filesystem locations for a
file with the same name as the class, plus the extension ".class". It
is conceivable that in environments where this doesn't make sense, a
java executable, or its equivalent, could do something else to load
the named class.

You are *not* telling the java executable to open the file "foo.class"
and muck about in it, trying to find some class with a main method to
execute.

Your proposal sets the cart before the horse.

-- 
Michael Wojcik
Micro Focus
Rhetoric & Writing, Michigan State University

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