Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #12065 > unrolled thread

"Borrowing" code

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.java.programmer

Contents

  "Borrowing" code Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-16 19:50 +0000
    Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-16 20:28 +0000
    Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-16 12:59 -0800
      Re: "Borrowing" code Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-16 13:51 -0800
        Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-16 15:03 -0800
          Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 01:21 -0800
            Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-17 11:29 -0800
              Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 11:51 -0800
                Re: "Borrowing" code Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-17 17:50 -0400
                  Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-17 22:36 +0000
                  Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 23:27 -0800
                    Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-18 15:11 +0000
                      Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 10:28 -0800
                        Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-18 20:08 +0000
                          Re: "Borrowing" code Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-18 16:46 -0400
                            Re: "Borrowing" code BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-20 01:58 -0700
                    Re: "Borrowing" code Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-18 13:03 -0400
                      Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 10:31 -0800
                      Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-18 20:15 +0000
                    Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-19 19:46 -0800
                      Re: "Borrowing" code Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-19 23:08 -0600
                        Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-20 09:17 -0800
                      Re: "Borrowing" code Mark <i@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> - 2012-02-20 09:32 +0000
                        Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-20 01:45 -0800
                          Re: "Borrowing" code BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-20 08:35 -0700
                        Re: "Borrowing" code Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-20 03:59 -0600
              Re: "Borrowing" code Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-17 17:00 -0500
                Re: "Borrowing" code Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-02-17 16:08 -0600
                  Re: "Borrowing" code Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-17 17:14 -0500
              Re: "Borrowing" code George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2012-02-17 18:00 -0500
                Re: "Borrowing" code Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-17 21:54 -0400
            Re: "Borrowing" code Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-17 17:10 -0500
              Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-17 22:42 +0000
                Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-17 15:22 -0800
                  Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-18 01:37 +0000
                    Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-19 19:51 -0800
        Re: "Borrowing" code Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-16 23:37 +0000
        Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 01:26 -0800
      Re: "Borrowing" code Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-16 19:36 -0400
        Re: "Borrowing" code Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-16 22:15 -0600
        Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 01:41 -0800
      Re: "Borrowing" code Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-16 23:36 +0000
        Re: "Borrowing" code Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 18:42 -0500
    Re: "Borrowing" code BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-16 15:19 -0700
      Re: "Borrowing" code Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-16 23:50 +0000
        Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 01:57 -0800
          Re: "Borrowing" code Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-17 17:09 +0000
            Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-17 18:45 +0000
              [OT] Harry Potter copyright claims (Was: "Borrowing" code) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 11:00 -0800
                Re: [OT] Harry Potter copyright claims (Was: "Borrowing" code) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-17 11:36 -0800
              Re: "Borrowing" code Mark <i@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> - 2012-02-20 09:41 +0000
            Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 10:34 -0800
            Re: "Borrowing" code Bent C Dalager <bcd@pvv.ntnu.no> - 2012-02-18 00:08 +0000
    Re: "Borrowing" code Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-16 18:14 -0500
    Re: "Borrowing" code Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 18:37 -0500
      Re: "Borrowing" code Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-02-16 17:39 -0800
    Re: "Borrowing" code Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-02-16 20:34 -0500
    Re: "Borrowing" code Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-02-16 18:01 -0800
      Re: "Borrowing" code Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 21:18 -0500
      Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-16 20:26 -0800
      Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-16 20:32 -0800
      Re: "Borrowing" code BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-17 00:25 -0700
      Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 02:01 -0800
      Re: "Borrowing" code Mark <i@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> - 2012-02-17 11:36 +0000
    Was: "Borrowing" code -  Links for budding copyright lawyers Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-17 17:29 -0500
    Re: "Borrowing" code Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-20 19:22 +0000

Page 4 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4]

#12107

On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 18:01:14 -0800, Roedy Green
<see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 19:50:51 +0000 (UTC), Novice <novice@example..com>
>wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>>I'm curious to know the legalities involved in "borrowing" code without 
>>paying for it.
>
>I think anything that looks like teaching examples is fair game for
>incorporation. Otherwise look for their policy.  In general POSTED
>code is fair game. Downloaded code is likely to have restrictions.
>
>Everything on my site, including docs, is for non-military use only.

     What if I write an app using some of your code, and someone buys
it and puts it to military use?

     As I recall from an article when I was still living in Vancouver
(in "The Computer Paper", I think), you had trouble enforcing your
limitation.  How did that end up going?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#12110

On 2/16/2012 7:01 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 19:50:51 +0000 (UTC), Novice<novice@example..com>
> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>> I'm curious to know the legalities involved in "borrowing" code without
>> paying for it.
>
> I think anything that looks like teaching examples is fair game for
> incorporation. Otherwise look for their policy.  In general POSTED
> code is fair game. Downloaded code is likely to have restrictions.
>
> Everything on my site, including docs, is for non-military use only.

in my case, a lot of my code is currently MIT licensed.

some of my other code is "free for non-commercial use" (no, this is not 
due to dislike of commercial software, rather it is for sake of leaving 
myself as the only person who can currently directly profit off of it).

I had considered wanting to clarify it (there are some forms of 
commercial use I am ok with), but I couldn't find any clear or concise 
way to define them.

not that it really matters, as for now my server is down (and will be so 
for a while), so no one can get or use any of it anyways.


or such...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#12116

Roedy Green wrote:
> Novice wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
> 
> >I'm curious to know the legalities involved in "borrowing" code without 
> >paying for it.
> 
> I think anything that looks like teaching examples is fair game for
> incorporation. Otherwise look for their policy.  In general POSTED

That may be what you think, but that's not what copyright law says. Copyright 
law says that material is protected unless reproduction rights are granted 
explicitly.

> code is fair game. Downloaded code is likely to have restrictions.
> 
> Everything on my site, including docs, is for non-military use only.

But that's code "that looks like teaching examples", so by your own policy 
that "is fair game for incorporation". The "Otherwise" clause never kicks in.

-- 
Lew

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#12120

On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 18:01:14 -0800, Roedy Green
<see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 19:50:51 +0000 (UTC), Novice <novice@example..com>
>wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>>I'm curious to know the legalities involved in "borrowing" code without 
>>paying for it.
>
>I think anything that looks like teaching examples is fair game for
>incorporation. Otherwise look for their policy.  In general POSTED
>code is fair game. Downloaded code is likely to have restrictions.
>
>Everything on my site, including docs, is for non-military use only.

Copyright law does vary from country to country.  In the UK all such
work has automatic copyright so there is no requirement to display
copyright notices (although there's nothing to stop people displaying
notices).  Unless the author gives permission for you to use the code
then you must assume that you cannot.

Whether the author would do anything about it is another matter.
Copyright infringment is usually a matter for the civil courts so the
victim would have to take you to court and prove you use the code and
prove losses as a result.

The concept of fair use is commonly misunderstood and, in the UK,
there are only a small number of specific conditions that are allowed.
-- 
(\__/)  M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#12147 — Was: "Borrowing" code - Links for budding copyright lawyers

On 02/16/2012 02:50 PM, Novice wrote:
> I'm curious to know the legalities involved in "borrowing" code without
> paying for it.
>
<http://www.wipo.int/portal/index.html.en>
<http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/wct/trtdocs_wo033.html>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#12193

Novice <novice@example..com> wrote in
news:Xns9FFB971CFBEEEjpnasty@94.75.214.39: 

> I'm curious to know the legalities involved in "borrowing" code
> without paying for it.
> 
> Let me clarify. Let's say that I find some code snippets or even
> entire classes, displayed on websites and that it would save me time
> and money to use those classes in my own projects. This web site,
> www.java2s.com, is just one of many such web sites on the Internet, as
> is the Java Tutorial at the Oracle website.
> 
> Assuming I make no claim that I am the author (by leaving the @author 
> Javadoc tag empty), am I "stealing" this code? What if I cite the
> author name in the @author tag (or the URL of the webpage in a comment
> if the author's name isn't present in the code)? Or would I have to
> get written permission of the author or website to use the code? Or
> even obtain a licence before I can use the code?
> 
> Code published in web pages or newsgroup posts "feels" as if it should
> be in the public domain but I think that's just wishful thinking on my
> part. Given that you can look at it without paying anyone for that
> privilege, and copy it into your own IDE and try it, etc. it feels as
> if it is there to be used. But as I understand it, those who create
> written works, whether books or programs, are their owners (unless in
> the employ of others) and retain copyright on this work, a copyright
> that typically lasts for the developer's life plus 70 years. 
> 
> If copyright does apply to all these snippets and example classes,
> would I be able to bypass copyright by modifying the code in some
> small way - maybe just with some comments or different variable names
> - or would that be the equivalent of painting a stolen car: it doesn't
> negate the fact that it's stolen and just tries to make it less
> obvious? 
> 
> I've been banging my head against a wall for a while on a couple of 
> classes my project needs and I have found two perfectly good classes
> that meet my needs so I'd like to use them rather than put still more
> time into making my own classes work satisfactorily. I'd like to
> figure out what I can do to use the clases I found without having to
> look over my shoulder (or fight my conscience) on the question of
> "stealing" this code.
> 


This thread has gotten WAY too big to respond to each and every comment. 
Let me just thank each and every one of you for your remarks on the issue 
I raised. I also want to acknowledge that I muddled my views on how 
copyright law SHOULD work with the way it actually DOES work in some of 
my remarks. 

For what it's worth, I studied the code that I wanted to borrow to see 
how the author accomplished what I wanted to do, then revised his 
technique substantially. I think mine may actually be more efficient and 
I'm confident it is considerably clearer. Therefore, although I have tha 
author's permission in writing - I'm assuming an email is sufficient to 
constitute "permission in writing" as opposed to a notarized paper - I'll 
be using my own code in my project.

And, going forward, I will be guided by the copyright notices that appear 
in the code that I see and observe them as scrupulously as I can. 

Again, thank you all for your remarks.
 

-- 
Novice

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Page 4 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4]

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.java.programmer

csiph-web