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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #19275 > unrolled thread

Assigning void

Started byWojtek <nowhere@a.com>
First post2012-10-12 22:54 -0700
Last post2012-10-23 00:38 +0200
Articles 7 on this page of 67 — 19 participants

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Contents

  Assigning void Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2012-10-12 22:54 -0700
    Re: Assigning void Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-10-12 23:27 -0700
      Re: Assigning void Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2012-10-13 12:35 -0700
    Re: Assigning void Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-10-13 09:26 -0400
    Re: Assigning void Donkey Hottie <donkey@fredriksson.dy.fi> - 2012-10-13 17:06 +0300
      Re: Assigning void Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-13 10:34 -0400
      Re: Assigning void Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2012-10-13 22:33 +0200
        Re: Assigning void Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-13 17:34 -0400
        Re: Assigning void Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-10-13 17:45 -0400
          Re: Assigning void Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-10-13 21:35 -0400
          Re: Assigning void Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2012-10-16 00:16 +0200
    Re: Assigning void Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-13 11:59 -0400
      Re: Assigning void glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-10-13 17:05 +0000
        Re: Assigning void Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-13 14:26 -0400
          Re: Assigning void markspace <-@.> - 2012-10-13 11:51 -0700
            Re: Assigning void Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-13 15:08 -0400
            Re: Assigning void Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2012-10-13 12:28 -0700
              Re: Assigning void markspace <-@.> - 2012-10-13 12:42 -0700
                Re: Assigning void Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-10-13 12:54 -0700
                  OT - Trolling Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2012-10-13 14:16 -0700
                    Re: OT - Trolling Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-13 18:09 -0400
                    Re: OT - Trolling Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-14 18:47 -0700
                Re: Assigning void Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-10-13 20:28 +0000
                Re: Assigning void Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2012-10-13 13:31 -0700
                  Re: Assigning void Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2012-10-20 18:00 +0200
                    Re: Assigning void Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-10-20 09:56 -0700
                      Re: Assigning void "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-10-21 13:24 +0200
                        Re: Assigning void Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-10-21 10:23 -0700
                          Re: Assigning void "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-10-22 00:13 +0200
                            Re: Assigning void Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-10-21 16:25 -0700
                              Re: Assigning void "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-10-22 08:43 +0200
                                Re: Assigning void "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-10-22 10:18 +0200
                                  Re: Assigning void Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-10-22 08:14 -0700
                        Re: Assigning void glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-10-21 19:45 +0000
                          Re: Assigning void "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-10-22 00:14 +0200
              Re: Assigning void Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-10-13 12:44 -0700
                Re: Assigning void Jukka Lahtinen <jtfjdehf@hotmail.com.invalid> - 2012-10-15 14:38 +0300
                  Re: Assigning void Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-10-15 09:11 -0700
          Re: Assigning void Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-13 15:03 -0400
            Re: Assigning void glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-10-13 20:21 +0000
      Re: Assigning void Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-10-13 12:38 -0700
        Re: Assigning void markspace <-@.> - 2012-10-13 12:49 -0700
          Re: Assigning void Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-10-13 13:03 -0700
            Re: Assigning void Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-10-14 14:09 +0200
              Re: Assigning void Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-10-14 11:31 -0700
        Re: Assigning void Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-13 19:55 -0400
          Re: Assigning void Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-13 20:25 -0400
            Re: Assigning void Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-13 21:01 -0400
              Re: Assigning void Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-14 18:42 -0700
    Re: Assigning void Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-10-14 00:51 -0700
    Re: Assigning void Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-14 10:40 -0400
    Re: Assigning void Sven Köhler <remove-sven.koehler@gmail.com> - 2012-10-21 01:24 +0200
      Re: Assigning void Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2012-10-21 14:52 -0700
        Re: Assigning void Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-10-21 20:13 -0400
          Re: Assigning void Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2012-10-21 20:20 -0700
            Re: Assigning void Sven Köhler <remove-sven.koehler@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 11:12 +0200
          Re: Assigning void Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2012-10-24 22:03 +0200
            Re: Assigning void Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-10-24 17:47 -0400
              Re: Assigning void Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2012-10-25 01:02 +0200
                Re: Assigning void Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-10-24 20:21 -0400
                  Re: Assigning void Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-10-25 20:04 +0000
                    (OT) Re: Assigning void Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-10-25 16:31 -0400
                      Re: (OT) Re: Assigning void Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-10-25 20:44 +0000
              Re: Assigning void Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2012-10-25 07:25 -0300
                Re: Assigning void Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-10-25 11:12 -0700
        Re: Assigning void Sven Köhler <remove-sven.koehler@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 11:01 +0200
        Re: Assigning void Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-10-23 00:38 +0200

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#19503

FromMartin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Date2012-10-25 20:04 +0000
Message-ID<k6c616$b7p$1@localhost.localdomain>
In reply to#19496
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 20:21:11 -0400, Eric Sosman wrote:

>      "Things would be so di-if-fe-rent,
>       If they were not as they are!"
>       -- Anna Russell (Extra credit if you know the tune.)
>
I don't know the tune, but you're the first person I've encountered in a 
very long time who knows who Anna Russell was. Long ago and far away I 
was fortunate enough to see her perform her single handed demolition of 
the Ring Cycle.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#19504 — (OT) Re: Assigning void

FromEric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid>
Date2012-10-25 16:31 -0400
Subject(OT) Re: Assigning void
Message-ID<k6c7j1$61v$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#19503
On 10/25/2012 4:04 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 20:21:11 -0400, Eric Sosman wrote:
>
>>       "Things would be so di-if-fe-rent,
>>        If they were not as they are!"
>>        -- Anna Russell (Extra credit if you know the tune.)
>>
> I don't know the tune, but you're the first person I've encountered in a
> very long time who knows who Anna Russell was. Long ago and far away I
> was fortunate enough to see her perform her single handed demolition of
> the Ring Cycle.

     Grew up with her recordings, and saw her live a couple times.
Most memorable moment: She led the entire Symphony Hall (Boston)
audience in a sing-along of one of the choruses from "Nabucco,"
with English words adapted from a spiritual concerning Meshach,
Shadrach, and Abednego.

     (I'm not making this up, you know.)

     The quoted couplet is from her presentation on "How to Write
Your Own Gilbert and Sullivan Opera."

-- 
Eric Sosman
esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid

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#19505 — Re: (OT) Re: Assigning void

FromMartin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Date2012-10-25 20:44 +0000
SubjectRe: (OT) Re: Assigning void
Message-ID<k6c8c1$b7p$2@localhost.localdomain>
In reply to#19504
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:31:28 -0400, Eric Sosman wrote:

>      The quoted couplet is from her presentation on "How to Write
> Your Own Gilbert and Sullivan Opera."
>
Yes, that fits.





-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#19497

FromArved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca>
Date2012-10-25 07:25 -0300
Message-ID<Ts8is.2650$pn7.2130@newsfe18.iad>
In reply to#19494
On 10/24/2012 06:47 PM, Eric Sosman wrote:
> On 10/24/2012 4:03 PM, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>> In article <k6232s$tr8$1@dont-email.me>, Eric Sosman (esosman@comcast-
>> dot-net.invalid) says...
>>
>>>       Seriously, the fact that C permits the ?: operator with void
>>> operands is an historical accident
>>
>> Could you elaborate that in more depth please? What's so bad about it in
>> your opinion?
>
[ SNIP ]
>
>      Also, it appears that `void' is not a "type" in Java.  That
> may be a controversial position (i.e., I may have to eat my
> words), but note that `void' is not listed as a type anywhere
> in JLS 4.  The description of java.lang.Void says it's a place-
> holder for "the Java *keyword* [emphasis mine] void," not for
> a type.  So `void' has an entirely different status in Java than
> in C, where it's a full-fledged (but rather special) "type."  An
> argument that `void' in Java should behave like `void' in C seems
> to me to be on shaky ground; one might make a similar argument
> about `goto'!
>
[ SNIP ]

My reading of the JLS leads me to the same conclusion as you, that 
"void" is not a Java type (primitive). As you pointed out, it's a keyword.

I figure it's best to stay away from type theory with 'void' and 'Void'. 
Most people that do stray down this road think of Java 'void' as being 
somewhat like an empty (zero/bottom) type. But since a bottom type means 
the lack of a normal return, Java 'void' isn't probably a real empty 
type, and I've seen some folks say that it's more of a unit type. And if 
you really, really have to draw that wrapper parallel between 'void' and 
java.lang.Void, and 'Void''s' uses in reflection and generics, that 
seems to reinforce the interpretation that the unit type concept is 
perhaps more apt.

And then you've got void.class, of which the type is Class<Void>. :-)

My way of thinking about it - if type theory had to be brought into it - 
is that both 'void' and 'Void' are unit types that express "nothing that 
matters to me".

AHS

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#19501

FromLew <lewbloch@gmail.com>
Date2012-10-25 11:12 -0700
Message-ID<1319d1b6-821c-4a8b-8f7e-f2a7251be7cb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#19497
Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> Eric Sosman wrote:
> [ SNIP ]
> 
>>      Also, it appears that `void' is not a "type" in Java.  That
>> may be a controversial position (i.e., I may have to eat my
>> words), but note that `void' is not listed as a type anywhere
>> in JLS 4.  The description of java.lang.Void says it's a place-
>> holder for "the Java *keyword* [emphasis mine] void," not for
>> a type.  So `void' has an entirely different status in Java than
>> in C, where it's a full-fledged (but rather special) "type."  An
>> argument that `void' in Java should behave like `void' in C seems
>> to me to be on shaky ground; one might make a similar argument
>> about `goto'!
> 
> [ SNIP ]
> 
> My reading of the JLS leads me to the same conclusion as you, that 
> "void" is not a Java type (primitive). As you pointed out, it's a keyword.
> 
> I figure it's best to stay away from type theory with 'void' and 'Void'. 
> Most people that do stray down this road think of Java 'void' as being 
> somewhat like an empty (zero/bottom) type. But since a bottom type means 
> the lack of a normal return, Java 'void' isn't probably a real empty 
> type, and I've seen some folks say that it's more of a unit type. And if 
> you really, really have to draw that wrapper parallel between 'void' and 
> java.lang.Void, and 'Void''s' uses in reflection and generics, that 
> seems to reinforce the interpretation that the unit type concept is 
> perhaps more apt.
> 
> And then you've got void.class, of which the type is Class<Void>. :-)
> 
> My way of thinking about it - if type theory had to be brought into it - 
> is that both 'void' and 'Void' are unit types that express "nothing that 
> matters to me".

Ever since generics entered Java, thinking in terms of type theory has made sense 
for Java programming, not that it didn't before.

Arved's analysis gives signposts for further research, at least I will take it that way.

-- 
Lew

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#19472

FromSven Köhler <remove-sven.koehler@gmail.com>
Date2012-10-22 11:01 +0200
Message-ID<aekftvFm33nU1@mid.dfncis.de>
In reply to#19462
Am 21.10.2012 23:52, schrieb Wojtek:
> Sven Köhler wrote :
>> Am 13.10.2012 07:54, schrieb Wojtek:
>>> but I want to do:
>>>
>>> (server.getConnectionType() == ConnectionType.ACTIVE) ?
>>> ftp.enterLocalActiveMode() : ftp.enterLocalPassiveMode();
>>
>> That's not correct Java syntax. Live with it.
> 
> So you just posted your first message to this group and this is how you
> want to represent yourself?

Your original post read like you were complaining that the syntax you
came up with was not allowed.

> Of course it is not valid syntax, I was just trying to start a
> discussion about its possible merits.

So you would like to see this syntax added to Java? There are no merits
beside saving a few characters of source. Not worth it.


Regards,
  Sven

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#19479

FromDaniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid>
Date2012-10-23 00:38 +0200
Message-ID<k64hu0$740$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#19462
On 21/10/2012 23:52, Wojtek allegedly wrote:
> Sven Köhler wrote :
>> Am 13.10.2012 07:54, schrieb Wojtek:
>>> but I want to do:
>>>
>>> (server.getConnectionType() == ConnectionType.ACTIVE) ?
>>> ftp.enterLocalActiveMode() : ftp.enterLocalPassiveMode();
>>
>> That's not correct Java syntax. Live with it.
> 
> So you just posted your first message to this group and this is how you
> want to represent yourself?

And what a flamboyant entrance that was! Succinctly settles the
question. No fluff, no aside, not remainder. Me like. :)

-- 
DF.

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