Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #24899 > unrolled thread

Re: "to override"

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.java.programmer

This discussion starts older than the indexed window; earlier articles aren't shown. The article labeled Started by below is the oldest one visible, not the original post.

Contents

  Re: "to override" Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-04 13:23 -0400
    Re: "to override" Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-08-05 01:40 +0200
      Re: "to override" Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-08-04 18:18 -0700

#24899 — Re: "to override"

On 8/4/2013 1:01 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>    Is it true that the meanings of »override« and »overwrite«
>    do overlap somewhat?

I don't think so.

Override is a commonly used term for subclasses providing a new 
implementation for a method.

Overwrite is commonly used for files, but for methods I would
be puzzled about what "overwriting a method" actually meant - it could
mean override, but I would start to suspect some advanced byte code
manipulation actually replacing the code of a method.

A bit of googling indicate that using overwrite for override
is a German language thingy.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120324072506AANp0CA

I don't know if that is true.

>    How could the meaning of »override« have developed, since
>    »to ride« actually means something one does with a horse?

I think "override method" and "manual override", "override decision"
etc. match pretty well in meaning.

Arne

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#24902

On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:23:31 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> On 8/4/2013 1:01 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>    Is it true that the meanings of »override« and »overwrite«
>>    do overlap somewhat?
> I don't think so.

> Override is a commonly used term for subclasses providing a new 
> implementation for a method.

> Overwrite is commonly used for files, but for methods I would
> be puzzled about what "overwriting a method" actually meant - it could
> mean override, but I would start to suspect some advanced byte code
> manipulation actually replacing the code of a method.

I would also use overwrite in the context of assigning a new value to
(primitive) variable, which overwrites the existing value, as well as in
various hardware related aspects (such as overwriting a shader program or
overwriting a graphics buffer).

> A bit of googling indicate that using overwrite for override
> is a German language thingy.

> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120324072506AANp0CA

> I don't know if that is true.

As a German, born and raised, I can confirm that both words typically
translate to the same German word ("Überschreiben", if you will forgive my
use of the Umlaut). When translating back, that often causes mistakes. It
is the same kind of problem as we have with pronouns - a lot of native
English speakers have immense trouble using der/die/das correctly, because
they only know 'the' for all three cases.

Similar mistakes you will often see from us Saxons is us driving bicycles
(because both driving and riding translate to 'fahren' unless actual horses
are involved) and peace pigeons (because doves and pigeons translate to
'Taube').

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#24903

Joerg Meier wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 8/4/2013 1:01 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>    Is it true that the meanings of »override« and »overwrite«
>>>    do overlap somewhat?
> 
>> I don't think so.
> 
>> Override is a commonly used term for subclasses providing a new 
>> implementation for a method.

It's also the precise word for that phenomenon in the Java language.

In a somewhat circular definition, "override" is the term for which 
the '@Override' annotation applies.

The JLS distinguishes this from other kinds of hiding, namely "hiding" 
itself, "shadowing" and "obscuring".

On another front, the ability to override methods in a subtype is essential
to the notion of object-oriented programming, at least in languages that have 
methods.

>> Overwrite is commonly used for files, but for methods I would

The term "overwrite" in Java and other computer programming contexts applies
to the replacement of data or information with other data or information.

One could philosophize that the two terms are related, but in usage they 
have particular contexts and denotations that must be respected.

>> be puzzled about what "overwriting a method" actually meant - it could

It's not a standard Java term.

>> mean override, but I would start to suspect some advanced byte code

It had better not mean "override", because there is already a term for what 
"override" means, and it would be improper to use a term with a different 
meaning for that meaning.

>> manipulation actually replacing the code of a method.

It would have to mean something distinct from "override", or else it is not 
a legitimate usage in a Java context. Certainly the person using the term 
"overwrite a method" has a responsibility to explain what they mean, since it 
is not a standard Java term.

> I would also use overwrite in the context of assigning a new value to
> (primitive) variable, which overwrites the existing value, as well as in

In the JLS, "overwrite" appears zero times.

> various hardware related aspects (such as overwriting a shader program or
> overwriting a graphics buffer).

Your assumption is not unreasonable but would need confirmation by whomever 
is using the term.

>> A bit of googling indicate that using overwrite for override
>> is a German language thingy.
> 
>> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120324072506AANp0CA
> 
> I don't know if that is true.
> 
> As a German, born and raised, I can confirm that both words typically
> translate to the same German word ("Überschreiben", if you will forgive my
> use of the Umlaut). When translating back, that often causes mistakes. It
> is the same kind of problem as we have with pronouns - a lot of native
> English speakers have immense trouble using der/die/das correctly, because
> they only know 'the' for all three cases.
> 
> Similar mistakes you will often see from us Saxons is us driving bicycles
> (because both driving and riding translate to 'fahren' unless actual horses
> are involved) and peace pigeons (because doves and pigeons translate to
> 'Taube').

Actually, a dove is a type of pigeon, so it makes sense.

Anyway, in English "overwrite" means to replace with different writing, and 
"override" means something more like "overrule" or "take over control".

-- 
Lew

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.java.programmer

csiph-web