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Re: Swing Application Framework Dead

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On 03/04/2012 03:31 PM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> On 12-03-04 02:58 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> On 03/04/2012 11:27 AM, Jan Burse wrote:
>>
>>> Well one could opt for heavy frameworks such
>>> as Eclipse etc..
>> What metrics describe the weight of an application framework?
>>
> A decent general purpose definition of lightweight and heavyweight,
> applicable to way more than just frameworks, is the degree of
> extensibility and configurability and flexibility built into the
> "thing". Whether that "thing" be an application framework or a messaging
> protocol or whatever.
>
> A lightweight system handles the easy cases, perhaps some of the medium
> difficulty cases, but can't deal with complex cases. Maybe you can't
> customize at all, or there is just way too much you have to implement
> yourself. java.util.logging is lightweight; log4j is more heavyweight.
>
> Java EE 5/6 and Spring are both heavyweight. A lot of Spring aficionados
> persist in wanting to call Spring lightweight: they must have some
> different definition, and I think I know what it is. Some people equate
> "lightweight" with "low barrier to entry" (ironically not true for
> Spring anyway) or "minimal configuration" (ironically not true for
> Spring anyway) or "low complexity" (ditto), but that's a confusing
> usage. I prefer the one I put forth (which I didn't invent btw), which
> is actually true for Spring, and one which they shouldn't shy away from.
>
> JSF, for example, is more heavyweight than a number of other web
> frameworks (certainly way more heavyweight than writing with servlets
> directly). JPA is more heavyweight than iBatis/MyBatis. In all these
> cases "lightweight" vs "heavyweight" is not a bad vs good comparison;
> it's merely a comparison of
> extensibility/configurability/flexibility/manageability etc.
>
> The definition carries: we can identify lightweight web servers and
> heavyweight web servers, at least side by side. We know that Alfresco is
> a "lighter-weight" CMS than FileNet P8; we know that enterprise Oracle
> is a "heavier-weight" RDBMS than Derby. Nothing pejorative about calling
> the one "light" and the other "heavy".
>
> Dunno about metrics, but this definition does imply that in order to do
> anything with a "heavyweight" framework you've got lots of accompanying
> stuff. The upside of this is that you can do lots of different things. A
> "lightweight" framework implies that you can't do nearly as many
> different things, or it's maybe more work to get some things done
> compared to a "heavyweight" setup, but you've got less stuff to take
> along for the ride and configure to get a given thing accomplished.
>

Thanks, I think that makes a very fine general purpose definition.

I'm tempted to include modularity in there somewhere.
The Eclipse RCP platform is exceedingly extensible, configurable, 
flexible and able to handle many of the difficult cases. There is a lot 
of stuff in there. But one needn't carry along all of the heavy baggage.

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Thread

Swing Application Framework Dead markspace <-@.> - 2012-03-03 13:52 -0800
  Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-03 21:17 -0500
    Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-03 21:27 -0500
      Re: Swing Application Framework Dead markspace <-@.> - 2012-03-03 20:00 -0800
        Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-04 09:31 -0500
          Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-04 14:34 -0500
      Re: Swing Application Framework Dead "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-03 23:52 -0500
  Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-03-04 17:27 +0100
    Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-04 12:59 -0500
    Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-04 13:58 -0500
      Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-03-04 16:31 -0400
        Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-04 16:13 -0500
          Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-04 16:20 -0500
            Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-04 21:03 -0500
          Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-03-04 22:20 +0100
            Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-03-04 18:15 -0400
              Re: Swing Application Framework Dead David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2012-03-05 16:26 -0500
            Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-04 17:44 -0500
            Re: Swing Application Framework Dead markspace <-@.> - 2012-03-05 08:14 -0800
            Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-06 07:06 -0500
      Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-03-04 22:18 +0100
        Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-03-04 18:21 -0400
      Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-04 20:55 -0500
        Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-05 02:39 -0800
        Re: Swing Application Framework Dead David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2012-03-05 16:35 -0500
          Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-06 17:21 -0500
    Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-03-04 20:20 +0100
      Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-03-04 21:49 +0100
    Re: Swing Application Framework Dead Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-04 17:18 -0500
    AAA Abstract Application Annotations Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-04 22:29 -0500
      Re: AAA Abstract Application Annotations Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-03-05 20:38 +0100
        Re: AAA Abstract Application Annotations Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-05 15:06 -0500
          Re: AAA Abstract Application Annotations Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-03-06 19:36 +0100

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