Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #9633

Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing

From	Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing
References	(7 earlier) <4eb59a7e$0$292$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <j946jd$f56$1@news.albasani.net> <4eb59ed8$0$288$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <j9472k$g84$1@news.albasani.net> <j94jsl$6rd$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID	<jbltq.16602$SW4.1128@newsfe08.iad> (permalink)
Organization	Public Usenet Newsgroup Access
Date	2011-11-05 22:13 -0300

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On 11-11-05 09:20 PM, markspace wrote:
> On 11/5/2011 1:41 PM, Jan Burse wrote:
>> Arne Vajhøj schrieb:
>>>
>>> How do you know that the clone solution use more CPU than
>>> the solution you are looking for now??
>>
>> It has been proven for the stack.
> 
> 
> I'd like to see that proof.  I think this is the fundamental disconnect
> most people are having on this thread.  What is an immutable stack
> actually good for?  There's nothing that comes to my mind.

Concurrency. Immutable data structures help in that environment -
nothing special about stacks in that regard.

>> But a friend of mine implemented the same application,
>> and he has a different solution for the queue and
>> is orders of magnitude faster.
> 
> Cloning or copying has got to be slow.  I'd bet this is why your
> solution is slow, even if you don't realize it.
> 
If you are actually really cloning, or copying everything. If you are
looking to implement efficient persistent data structures then the only
bits you copy are the modified bits. The unmodified bits are shared, and
are still immutable.

AHS
-- 
You should know the problem before you try to solve it.
Example: When my son was three he cried about a problem with his hand. I
kissed it several times and asked him about the problem. He peed on his
hand.
-- Radia Perlman, inventor of spanning tree protocol

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Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 04:03 +0100
  Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 12:42 +0100
    Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-05 09:35 -0700
      Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 19:33 +0100
        Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-11-05 14:42 -0400
          Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 19:52 +0100
            Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-11-05 19:32 +0000
            Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-11-05 15:31 -0400
              Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 20:50 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-11-05 16:26 -0400
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 21:35 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 21:38 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-11-05 16:59 -0400
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 22:06 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-05 16:41 -0400
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 21:42 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-11-05 17:11 -0400
            Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-05 16:20 -0400
              Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 21:33 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-05 16:38 -0400
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 21:41 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-05 17:20 -0700
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-11-05 22:13 -0300
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-05 20:05 -0700
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-06 10:27 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-06 10:14 +0100
    Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-05 10:06 -0700
      Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-11-05 10:55 -0700
        Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 19:30 +0100
          Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-11-05 18:16 -0400
            Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 23:20 +0100
            Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 23:38 +0100
        Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-11-05 17:47 -0300
        Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-11-05 14:26 -0700
      Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-05 16:14 -0400
  Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-11-05 14:35 -0700
    Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 22:42 +0100
      Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 22:50 +0100
      Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-11-05 14:51 -0700
        Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 22:58 +0100
          Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 23:03 +0100
            Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-05 23:07 +0100
            Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2011-11-06 09:44 +0200
              Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-06 10:22 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-11-06 09:05 -0400
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-06 14:16 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-06 14:22 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-11-06 14:30 +0000
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-06 16:02 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-06 16:08 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Giovanni Azua <bravegag@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-06 16:18 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-06 16:54 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Giovanni Azua <bravegag@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-06 17:31 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-06 22:33 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-06 16:47 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-06 16:58 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-11-07 01:01 +0000
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-06 17:26 -0800
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-11-07 23:45 +0000
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-06 14:44 -0800
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-06 17:51 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Giovanni Azua <bravegag@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-07 01:28 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-06 19:50 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Giovanni Azua <bravegag@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-07 02:13 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-06 20:20 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-06 17:29 -0800
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Giovanni Azua <bravegag@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-07 11:22 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-11-06 23:02 +0000
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-07 00:32 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Giovanni Azua <bravegag@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-07 01:10 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-11-07 10:24 +0000
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Giovanni Azua <bravegag@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-07 11:52 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-11-07 11:12 +0000
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-07 17:24 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Giovanni Azua <bravegag@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-07 02:08 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-07 05:03 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-07 05:13 +0100
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-11-07 23:38 +0000
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-11-09 22:06 +0000
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-11-09 18:02 -0800
  Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-07 00:28 +0100
    Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-07 00:39 +0100
      Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-11-06 20:57 -0400
        Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-11-07 04:58 +0100
          Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Silvio Bierman <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-11-07 15:13 +0100
            Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Cthun <cthun_202@qmail.net.au> - 2011-11-07 12:54 -0500
              Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing "B1ll Gat3s" <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-11-07 18:07 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-11-07 22:07 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing "B1ll Gat3s" <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-11-08 00:17 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-11-08 16:03 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Cthun <cthun_202@qmail.net.au> - 2011-11-08 15:49 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing "B1ll Gat3s" <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-11-08 18:01 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-11-08 20:46 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing "Cthun" <cthun_202@qmail.net.au> - 2011-11-08 22:43 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-11-09 08:28 -0500
                Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-11-08 16:00 -0500
  Re: Immutable Datastructures with good Sharing Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2011-11-07 08:46 -0800

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