Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register

Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #5121

Re: Managed-Code Bloat

Show all headers | View raw

On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 11:48:22 -0400, Michael Wojcik wrote:

> Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 10:47:10 -0700, Alessio Stalla wrote:
>> 
>>> [*] I mean languages in which new projects are actively being written;
>>> maintenance of old COBOL and FORTRAN code does not count.
>>>
>> Garbage collection and stack management are largely irrelevant for
>> COBOL - all data space is declared statically and the ways in which
>> PERFORM can be used more or less guarantees that its use will not
>> involve the stack.
> 
> That hasn't been true, in general, since COBOL-85. While there certainly
> are still old COBOL applications with fixed-size memory requirements, a
> great many written over the past quarter-century make use of arbitrary
> subroutine call (ie, out-of-line perform and call) patterns, and a
> smaller number use reentrancy and/or threading.
>
OK, I'd agree about dynamically loaded subroutines, though those scarcely 
need a GC since the allocation/deallocation points are well known, but 
are you saying that the content of WORKING-STORAGE can be dynamic now? 
Last time I looked (that would have been COBOL-85 probably) you could 
specify a variable OCCURS clause in a table declaration but memory was 
always allocated for the maximum table size, in the implementations I 
knew detail for, anyway.

> And there have been garbage-collected COBOLs at least since the first OO
> COBOLs appeared in the 1990s.
>
OK - but I've never used or seen those flavours.

> There are also managed-code COBOLs. Fujitsu has .NET COBOL; so do we,
> and we also have JVM COBOL.
>
I did use multi-threading in COBOL, but we managed all that in non-POSIX 
C threads (on an NCR UNIX box with microFocus COBOL for the business 
logic). I don't know when the code was initially written, though, so a 
lot of than could have been a hang-over due to legacy code (the system 
was Shared Financial's ON/X, a UNIX port of their ON/2 ATM management 
system, which was originally written in Stratus COBOL).


> Fortran 90 added dynamic memory allocation to the standard. Prior to
> that I believe some implementations offered it as an extension.
> 
I've had a very brief exposure to Fortran 77 - little more than pumping 
XFOIL through GNU Fortran so I could run it - and that's about it. I was 
very pleased to see that the nasty IF A=B 40,50,60 conditionals had at 
last grown up into proper IF..ELSE conditionals.
 
> I don't know if anyone has a garbage-collected Fortran implementation.



-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

Back to comp.lang.java.programmer | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

Managed-Code Bloat Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-06-06 18:47 +1200
  Re: Managed-Code Bloat Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-06 06:40 -0300
    Re: Managed-Code Bloat Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-06-06 23:04 +1200
      Re: Managed-Code Bloat Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-06 17:41 -0300
        Re: Managed-Code Bloat Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-06-07 11:13 +1200
          Re: Managed-Code Bloat Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-07 07:08 -0300
      Re: Managed-Code Bloat Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-06-07 09:40 +0200
        Re: Managed-Code Bloat Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-07 06:08 -0700
  Re: Managed-Code Bloat Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-06-06 11:35 -0400
    Re: Managed-Code Bloat Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-06-06 10:47 -0700
      Re: Managed-Code Bloat Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-06 18:21 +0000
        Re: Managed-Code Bloat Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-08 11:48 -0400
          Re: Managed-Code Bloat Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-08 18:06 +0000
            Re: Managed-Code Bloat Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-11 14:00 -0400
      Re: Managed-Code Bloat Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-06-07 10:18 +1200
        Re: Managed-Code Bloat Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-08 11:59 -0400
      Re: Managed-Code Bloat Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-08 11:22 -0400
        Re: Managed-Code Bloat rossum <rossum48@coldmail.com> - 2011-06-08 21:45 +0100
    Re: Managed-Code Bloat Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-06-07 10:17 +1200
      Re: Managed-Code Bloat Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-06-06 16:37 -0700
        Re: Managed-Code Bloat Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-06-07 12:06 +1200
          Re: Managed-Code Bloat Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-06-06 17:44 -0700
            Re: Managed-Code Bloat Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-06-07 13:38 +1200
              Re: Managed-Code Bloat Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-06-06 20:13 -0700
                Re: Managed-Code Bloat Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-06-07 15:41 +1200
                Re: Managed-Code Bloat Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-06-06 20:47 -0700
                Re: Managed-Code Bloat BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-07 01:06 -0700
                Re: Managed-Code Bloat Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-06-07 23:53 +1200
                Re: Managed-Code Bloat BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-07 16:04 -0700
                Re: Managed-Code Bloat Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-08 13:04 -0400
                Re: Managed-Code Bloat Michal Kleczek <kleku75@gmail.com> - 2011-06-08 09:23 +0200
                Re: Managed-Code Bloat BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-08 03:54 -0700
                Re: Managed-Code Bloat bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> - 2011-06-07 10:10 +0100
                Re: Managed-Code Bloat BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-07 00:37 -0700
      Re: Managed-Code Bloat Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-07 07:31 -0300
        Re: Managed-Code Bloat BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-07 16:18 -0700
          Re: Managed-Code Bloat Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-07 20:50 -0300
          Re: Managed-Code Bloat Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-08 07:53 -0700
            Re: Managed-Code Bloat BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-08 11:23 -0700
    Re: Managed-Code Bloat BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-06 16:54 -0700
  Re: Managed-Code Bloat Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-06-06 19:24 -0700
    Re: Managed-Code Bloat Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-06-07 15:44 +1200

csiph-web