Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register

Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #4648

Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app

Show all headers | View raw

Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> Lew wrote:
>> markspace wrote:
>>> Lew wrote:
>>>> I've been able to work out "all this" pretty much from
>>>> http://download.oracle.com/javaee/6/tutorial/doc/bnadp.html
>>>> the MyFaces docs and the articles in IBM DeveloperWorks.

>>> Thanks for pointing out those additional resources. I think right now I'm

>> I forgot to mention the most important one: lots of example apps that I
>> created in my (copious) spare time.  I went nuts in JSF 1.something when
>> "rendered='false'" on first page call would prevent a component from
>> being in the tree, never to be reinserted in postback when the value
>> flipped to 'true'.  They fixed that later.  I went nuts overall until I
>> began to grok the six-stage component lifecycle of JSF.

> I similarly went nuts in my early exposure to JSF until I learnt that
> lifecycle. I lived by Rick Hightower and BalusC. These days I go nuts
> because I work with people who have had to use JSF for the same length
> of time as me, but who haven't bothered to learn the lifecycle, and
> screw coding up because of it.
>
> Typical problem - people not realizing how often getters get called in
> first view or postback, and jamming all sorts of unguarded persistence
> operations into getters as a result. "Duhhhhh...why did that table get
> updated twice?"

Boy, that was a surprise the first time I encountered it AT HOME WHILE I WAS 
PRACTICING!

Then I studied up and found out about the lifecycle.

All before I accepted a paycheck to do JSF programming.  Not that I needed to 
be a master first, but I sure needed to do SOME practice first.

>> I went nuts
>> until I learned that every backing bean is a controller, unlike the
>> front-controller pattern familiar to Model 2 and Struts mavens.

> One other thing to learn early on is the distinction between JSF managed
> beans and JSF backing beans. Many of the same aforementioned people use
> the terms indistinguishably, and I wish they wouldn't. No excuse for
> this confusion: the Java EE tutorial explains the difference clearly in
> 2 sentences.

This one I had not encountered, maybe because backing beans were first in the 
managed-bean universe and managed beans were generalized therefrom:
<http://download.oracle.com/javaee/6/tutorial/doc/bnacj.html#indexterm-85>
"Managed Beans represent a generalization of the managed beans specified by 
JavaServer Faces technology and can be used anywhere in a Java EE application, 
not just in web modules."

I see from
<http://download.oracle.com/javaee/6/tutorial/doc/gjaam.html#gjacb>
"As mentioned earlier in this chapter, a backing bean, a type of managed bean, 
is a JavaBeans component that is managed by JavaServer Faces technology. 
Components in a page are associated with backing beans that provide 
application logic."

However, managed beans are actually not defined earlier in that chapter.

<http://download.oracle.com/javaee/6/tutorial/doc/bnaqm.html>
"A typical JavaServer Faces application includes one or more backing beans, 
each of which is a type of JavaServer Faces managed bean that can be 
associated with the components used in a particular page."

In any case, I couldn't find the "two sentences" to which you refer, so I 
suggest you lighten up a little on that particular rigidity.

> I like the (newish) CDI annotations that allow the "managing" bit -
> naming and scoping, for starters - not to be a JSF thing. I use them
> when I can.
>
> ... [snip ...

>> I still
>> don't use "immediate='true'".

> I almost never use it either now. The reason I don't is because it takes
> some quality reading to understand what "immediate" does (see the
> excellent description at
> http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/How_The_Immediate_Attribute_Works), and
> you have to re-read and refresh yourself on that every few months when
> your use of "immediate" has caused a bug (or more likely, some other
> developer never read up on it and uses "immediate" incorrectly, and
> you've got to fix the defect).
>
> It's just not worth it.

You echo my reasoning.  Hard to understand, limited usefulness - screw it.

>> I must've tried every variation of URL in JSF, JSTL, jsp:useBean and
>> such structures as I've learned my J{2,ava }EE skills in order to learn
>> where things need to be for the app server to find them.  I still am not
>> fully aware of the nuances.

> Other takeaways: thank God for Facelets. I haven't used JSPs in 3 years.
> And even though it's got better support in JSF 1.2 and 2.0 than it did
> in 1.1, _don't_ mix JSTL and JSF. If you're writing JSF JSPs or
> Facelets, and you think you need JSTL, think again - you don't.

I've seen this mistake in practice, and people (so-called "programmers", no 
less!) look at me blankly when I give that advice.  And yet they're never the 
ones to get fired!

>>> mostly concerned that the JSF 2.1 spec seems a lot less complete than
>>> the JSP
>>> and Servlet one, and that the book I purchased by the spec co-lead seems
>>> equally abbreviated. You'd think Sun (and now Oracle) would be most
>>> interested in making sure that accurate and complete documentation is available.
>>> "Google for it and read some blogs" seems like the opposite of that idea.
>>>
>>> Don't mind me though, I'm typically grumpy when I'm trying to plow my way
>>> through new concepts.
>>
>> Curmudgeons of the world, uni- - - ah, screw it!
>>
>> If programming was easy, anyone could do it.  Sometimes you just have to
>> bang your (metaphorical) head against the (metaphorical) brick walls
>> until something (hopefully the wall) crumbles (metaphorically).  And I
>> truly found that GIMF through all that with JSF.
>>
> I am reasonably fond of both JSF (especially JSF 2.0) and ASP.NET MVC.
> As far as I am concerned both teams got It.

Yay, facelets!

Boo, ignorance!

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

Back to comp.lang.java.programmer | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

Dealing with application names in a JEE web app markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-23 12:11 -0700
  Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 15:30 -0400
    Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-23 12:41 -0700
    Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-23 13:10 -0700
      Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 17:02 -0400
        Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app jebblue <n@n.nnn> - 2011-05-23 19:30 -0500
          Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 21:13 -0400
        Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-24 09:32 -0700
  Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-05-23 19:01 -0300
  Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app Owen Jacobson <angrybaldguy@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 23:20 -0400
  Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-05-24 18:16 +0100
    Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-25 12:16 -0700
      Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-25 16:40 -0700
      Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-05-26 18:07 +0100
        Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-26 13:25 -0400
          Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-26 12:57 -0700
            Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-26 19:39 -0400
              Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-05-27 07:31 -0300
                Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-27 10:14 -0400
        Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-26 12:51 -0700
        Re: Dealing with application names in a JEE web app Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-26 14:51 -0700

csiph-web