Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #20728

Re: proper use of .java files (layout)

From	Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: proper use of .java files (layout)
Date	2012-12-27 18:20 +0100
Message-ID	<ak3eb0FcsneU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <design-20121225222713@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> <-7qdnc2dgM62l0bNnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <c83576b8-438a-4e4d-939c-6aeb9d20c9f1@googlegroups.com> <ak2nhuF7qjeU1@mid.individual.net> <jMSdnbdvXZvl5kHNnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@earthlink.com>

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On 27.12.2012 17:46, Patricia Shanahan wrote:

> The flow charts were longer than the assembly language code, no more
> readable, and contained a proper subset of the information in the code,
> including its comments, so they were really useless. They gave no
> architectural or design insight. They existed only in order to be able
> to say we had a flow chart.

Neat! ;-)

> Round trip UML smells of that situation.

Yes.  I believe the reason for that is that diagram != diagram: a 
diagram generated from some input can only apply standard layout rules. 
  But a diagram created by a human will have deliberate layout and a 
human will also likely refrain from putting all classes of a single 
package (or even a complete source tree) in a single diagram.

And in order to update a diagram from source code you always need 
additional data - either the old diagram or some form of meta data which 
describes placement.  For things created in code you would still get 
default placement and a human would have to edit the diagram anyway.

And if the roundtrip tool would also to need to handle renaming of 
entities like classes and interfaces (a common operation during 
refactoring) there would also need to be support from the IDE to record 
these types of changes and update diagrams properly.

Then we still haven't covered how a project with a few thousand classes 
is handled efficiently (not in terms of CPU cycles but in terms of 
diagrams which provide benefit to the reader).

Plenty of years ago I got to evaluate the first version of a roundtrip 
UML tool which supported sequence diagrams (as representations of 
methods).  I create a sequence diagram with two method invocations both 
of which returned String.  The code didn't compile.  It turned out that 
both variables had the same name.  I couldn't believe they did not think 
of that situation when I stumbled across this after five minutes.  Well, 
my company didn't by the tool then. :-)

Kind regards

	robert

-- 
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Thread

proper use of .java files (layout) infinitum3d@hotmail.com - 2012-12-16 07:38 -0800
  Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-12-16 16:43 +0100
  Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-16 10:50 -0500
    Re: proper use of .java files (layout) "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-12-16 16:25 -0500
  Re: proper use of .java files (layout) markspace <-@.> - 2012-12-16 08:24 -0800
    Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-17 10:28 -0800
      Re: proper use of .java files (layout) markspace <-@.> - 2012-12-17 13:17 -0800
        Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-17 13:51 -0800
        Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-17 20:55 -0500
          Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-17 18:18 -0800
            Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-17 21:28 -0500
              Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-17 21:10 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-18 08:53 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-18 09:13 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-18 09:23 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-18 13:49 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-18 15:05 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-18 20:11 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-18 21:07 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 09:33 +0000
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-19 10:12 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:35 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-12-19 15:55 -0600
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 14:01 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-12-19 16:05 -0600
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-19 04:06 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-19 12:24 +0000
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 13:36 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-18 20:10 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-12-18 12:14 -0600
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-18 20:04 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-19 10:14 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-19 19:18 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-20 11:05 +0000
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-27 21:43 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-27 18:49 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-27 22:10 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-20 09:01 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-20 09:30 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-20 13:35 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-20 14:00 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-21 08:58 +0000
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-12-21 10:36 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-21 18:43 +0000
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-27 22:05 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-28 09:57 +0000
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-27 21:59 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-27 21:53 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-27 21:54 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-27 21:48 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-27 21:11 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-12-28 06:50 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-28 13:46 +0000
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-28 09:10 -0800
        Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-18 09:50 +0000
          Re: proper use of .java files (layout) "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2012-12-18 13:09 +0000
            Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-18 14:05 +0000
        Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-25 15:06 -0800
        Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-26 06:31 -0800
          Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-26 13:21 -0800
            Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-26 23:38 -0500
            Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-27 08:37 +0000
            Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-12-27 11:51 +0100
              Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-27 08:46 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-12-27 18:20 +0100
              Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-27 20:48 -0500
      Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-17 20:58 -0500
        Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-17 18:22 -0800
          Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-17 21:39 -0500
        Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-17 21:25 -0500
          Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-17 21:29 -0500
            Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-17 21:32 -0500
              Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-17 21:37 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Wayne <nospam@all.invalid> - 2012-12-18 18:45 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-18 20:13 -0500
  Re: proper use of .java files (layout) infinitum3d@hotmail.com - 2012-12-16 09:23 -0800
  Re: proper use of .java files (layout) infinitum3d@hotmail.com - 2012-12-16 21:07 -0800
  Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-17 10:32 +0000
    Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-17 21:03 -0500
      Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-18 09:34 +0000
        Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-18 20:00 -0500
        Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-18 20:01 -0500
  Re: proper use of .java files (layout) infinitum3d@hotmail.com - 2012-12-18 06:32 -0800
    Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-18 15:05 +0000
      Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-18 11:07 -0500
        Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-18 16:27 +0000
          Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-18 11:44 -0500
            Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-18 17:21 +0000
          Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-18 09:21 -0800
            Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-18 17:39 +0000
              Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-18 10:40 -0800
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-18 19:05 +0000
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-18 15:15 -0800
              Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-18 14:12 -0500
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-18 19:39 +0000
                Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-18 15:17 -0800
        Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-18 20:07 -0500
          Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-18 21:11 -0500
            Re: proper use of .java files (layout) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-18 22:24 -0500
    Re: proper use of .java files (layout) markspace <-@.> - 2012-12-18 10:35 -0800

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