Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #24116

Re: lectures about "programming methodology"

Show all headers | View raw

On 05/12/2013 11:17 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 5/8/2013 4:48 PM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>> On 05/07/2013 10:38 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2013 6:10 PM, David Lamb wrote:
>>>> On 06/05/2013 9:46 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> On 5/6/2013 6:28 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>>>>    A scope is a region of the source text. Identifiers
>>>>>>    have a scope.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    A lifetime is a period of time during the execution
>>>>>>    of a program. Variables and objects have lifetimes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    This has no special relation with Java, this is
>>>>>>    software engineering (or »programming methodology«).
>>>>>
>>>>> I really don't see that as software engineering.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a CS exercise in definitions with little practical
>>>>> benefits.
>>>>
>>>> Whoah, scope versus lifetime is a pretty fundamental distinction.
>>>> Admittedly it was more fundamental in old block-structured languages
>>>> like Algol, but still...
>>>
>>> Fundamental for software engineering??
>>>
>> Well, in order to be a software engineer you must know how to program.
>
> In theory no. Software engineering is the process of getting from
> requirements to a detailed description of the implementation. The
> output does not have to be code.
>
> In practice yes. 99.999% will have to produce code as output. Producing
> documentation outlining details of all data structure and control
> structures and then later let somebody else convert it to actual
> code rarely make sense.
>
> So let us assume that software engineering requires coding.
>
>> That's essential. So I'd say that programming concepts that are basic
>> and fundamental like these two are important at the software engineering
>> level.
>
> Why?
>
> Some given code does not get better or worse depending on whether
> the author know those definitions.
>
> The usual reason to know common terms is to be able to communicate
> efficiently.
>
> But is those two terms something that is used in communication
> as part of software development?
>
> I doubt that.
>
> Arne
>
I respectfully disagree. Maybe we are arguing at cross-purposes here, 
Arne, I can't conceive of a competent developer not understanding scope 
and lifetime. Maybe you don't actually use the words in communication 
often, but it's part of your thinking. I probably last used the term 
"garbage collection" in a conversation last year, but I think about it 
at least once a week.

Scope and lifetime are concepts that fall into the larger categories of 
resource management and reliability. At a minimum.

A lot of programmers may not use the terms per se, but you can always 
tell the difference between the coders who understand those 2 concepts, 
and the ones that don't. And the latter always write worse code. So to 
me that makes them essential concepts in software engineering.

AHS

Back to comp.lang.java.programmer | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: lectures about "programming methodology" Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-05-06 21:46 -0400
  Re: lectures about "programming methodology" Sven Köhler <remove-sven.koehler@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 13:45 +0300
    Re: lectures about "programming methodology" Sven Köhler <remove-sven.koehler@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 15:52 +0300
    Re: lectures about "programming methodology" markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-05-07 09:44 -0700
    Re: lectures about "programming methodology" Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-05-07 21:37 -0400
  Re: lectures about "programming methodology" David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2013-05-07 18:10 -0400
    Re: lectures about "programming methodology" Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-05-07 21:38 -0400
      Re: lectures about "programming methodology" Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-05-08 17:48 -0300
        Re: lectures about "programming methodology" Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-05-12 22:17 -0400
          Re: lectures about "programming methodology" Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-05-17 19:35 -0300
            Re: lectures about "programming methodology" Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-05-17 18:53 -0400
              Re: lectures about "programming methodology" Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-05-17 19:02 -0400
                Re: lectures about "programming methodology" Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-05-17 20:14 -0300
                Re: lectures about "programming methodology" Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-05-17 19:29 -0400
                Re: lectures about "programming methodology" lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-05-18 11:07 +0100

csiph-web