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Re: The halting problem revisited

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On 30/03/2011 00:27, Joshua Maurice wrote:
> On Mar 29, 12:53 pm, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:
>> Joshua Maurice<joshuamaur...@gmail.com>  writes:
>>> Just because I'm marginally knowledgeable about such things,
>>> let me pipe in.
>> (...)
>>> IIRC, there's also some discussion of whether Bell's inequality are
>>> true. I'm not the most versed on it, but I think that the evidence for
>>> Bell's inequality is less than foolproof.
>>
>>    Marginally knowledgeable people are aware that
>>
>>        every single experiment done so far (...) violates
>>        a Bell inequality
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_test_experiments
>>
>>    and
>>
>>        Aspect's experiments were considered to provide
>>        overwhelming support to the thesis that Bell's
>>        inequalities are violated
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_Aspect
>>
>>    as it has to be when quantum theory is correct.
>
> I mispoke. I meant "Bell's Theorem" instead of "inequality". Typo. My
> mistake. I meant to say that Bell's Theorem is widely upheld to be
> true, although the evidence isn't foolproof. It is exactly as you
> state - all performed experiments seem to violate a Bell Inequality,
> which is interpreted as proving no hidden determinalistic local
> variable system which can describe the results.
>
> As I mentioned, there are so called "loopholes" in the validity of
> these experimental results, but the consensus leans towards validity.
>
> Let me requote what you snipped.
>
> On Mar 28, 6:15 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro<l...@geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand>  wrote:
>> In message<imr30v$vo...@dont-email.me>, Joshua Cranmer wrote:
>>> Heisenberg's uncertainty principle only states that we don't know the
>>> (P)RNG of the world. :-)
>>
>> Bell’s inequality states otherwise.
>
> As I said this is untrue. Bell's Theorem, if correct, and it's widely
> believed to be correct, proves that there is no /local/
> determinalistic hidden variable system consistent with observations of
> quantum mechanics. However, there could be a non-local one. There
> could be a non-local determinalistic hidden variable system which is
> consistent with observations of quantum effects. Thus the perceived
> randomness could be determinalistic. It's conceivable and consistent
> that there could be a determinalistic PRNG operating in the world of
> quantum mechanics.
>
> In short, Bell's theorem says that you have to have at least one of
> the following: 1- action at a distance, aka FTL interactions, or 2-
> true randomness, aka no determinalism. To a lot of physicists, both
> seem rather, "unintuitive", shall I say. Such is the world of quantum
> physics.

You need the true randomness to prevent temporal paradox arising

-- 
Dirk

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/ - My new book - Magick and Technology

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Re: The halting problem revisited Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-03-29 12:42 -0700
  Re: The halting problem revisited Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-03-29 16:27 -0700
    Re: The halting problem revisited Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-03-30 01:16 +0100
      Re: The halting problem revisited Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-03-29 23:18 -0400
        Re: The halting problem revisited Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-03-30 15:39 +0100
          Re: The halting problem revisited Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-03-31 16:08 +1300
          Re: The halting problem revisited Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-03-31 08:34 -0400
      Re: The halting problem revisited Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-03-30 04:04 -0700
        Re: The halting problem revisited Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-03-30 15:47 +0100

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