Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #2557

Re: The halting problem revisited

Show all headers | View raw

On 29/03/2011 19:05, Lew wrote:
> On 03/29/2011 12:18 PM, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>> On 29/03/2011 16:59, Lew wrote:
>>> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>>>> Lew wrote:
>>>>> Nothing is determined but that nothing is determined.
>>>
>>>> I assume you are a friend of Wigners friend...
>>>
>>> I don't know. I haven't been on Facebook in a while.
>>>
>>> Nothing is determined like my buddy Phil when he wants a big Mac.
>>>
>> I'll be charitable and assume that's a feeble joke rather than an
>> illustration
>> of your total ignorance of the subject
>
> I don't need your stinkin' charity. It was total ignorance of the subject.
>
Well, here's something that will help relieve the burden:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigner%27s_friend

"The Wigner's Friend thought experiment posits a friend of Wigner who 
performs the Schrödinger's cat experiment after Wigner leaves the 
laboratory. Only when he returns does Wigner learn the result of the 
experiment from his friend, that is, whether the cat is alive or dead. 
The question is raised: was the state of the system a superposition of 
"dead cat/sad friend" and "live cat/happy friend," only determined when 
Wigner learned the result of the experiment, or was it determined at 
some previous point?

Wigner designed the experiment to illustrate his belief that 
consciousness is necessary to the quantum mechanical measurement 
process. If a material device is substituted for the conscious friend, 
the linearity of the wave function implies that the state of the system 
is in a linear sum of possible states. It is simply a larger 
indeterminate system.

However, a conscious observer (according to his reasoning) must be in 
either one state or the other, hence conscious observations are 
different, hence consciousness is not material. Wigner discusses this 
scenario in "Remarks on the mind-body question", one in his collection 
of essays, Symmetries and Reflections, 1967. The idea has become known 
as the consciousness causes collapse interpretation."

-- 
Dirk

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/ - My new book - Magick and Technology

Back to comp.lang.java.programmer | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

Re: The halting problem revisited Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-03-29 14:05 -0400
  Re: The halting problem revisited Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-03-29 20:43 +0100
    Re: The halting problem revisited "javax.swing.JSnarker" <gharriman@boojum.mit.edu> - 2011-03-29 20:24 -0400
      Re: The halting problem revisited Michal Kleczek <kleku75@gmail.com> - 2011-03-30 10:05 +0200
        Re: The halting problem revisited "javax.swing.JSnarker" <gharriman@boojum.mit.edu> - 2011-03-30 04:41 -0400
          Re: The halting problem revisited Michal Kleczek <kleku75@gmail.com> - 2011-03-30 11:35 +0200
            Re: The halting problem revisited Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-03-30 07:38 -0400
              Re: The halting problem revisited Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-03-30 15:48 +0100
                Re: The halting problem revisited Lew <lew@lewscanon.com> - 2011-03-30 10:35 -0700
                Re: The halting problem revisited Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-03-30 19:46 +0100
                Re: The halting problem revisited Lew <lew@lewscanon.com> - 2011-03-30 13:24 -0700
                Re: The halting problem revisited Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-03-31 00:04 +0100
                Re: The halting problem revisited Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-03-31 00:00 -0400
              Re: The halting problem revisited "javax.swing.JSnarker" <gharriman@boojum.mit.edu> - 2011-04-04 20:28 -0400
            Re: The halting problem revisited Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-03-30 15:44 +0100
            Re: The halting problem revisited "javax.swing.JSnarker" <gharriman@boojum.mit.edu> - 2011-04-04 20:26 -0400
              Re: The halting problem revisited Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-04-05 01:32 +0100
          Re: The halting problem revisited Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-03-30 15:42 +0100
            Re: The halting problem revisited Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-03-31 08:31 -0400
        Re: The halting problem revisited Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-03-30 15:41 +0100
          Re: The halting problem revisited "javax.swing.JSnarker" <gharriman@boojum.mit.edu> - 2011-04-04 20:34 -0400
      Re: The halting problem revisited Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-03-30 15:38 +0100

csiph-web