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Re: Do C++ and Java professionals use UML??

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  To: Gene Wirchenko
From: Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com>

On 27.07.2012 18:16, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 13:21:17 +0200, Robert Klemme
> <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 07/26/2012 06:16 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>> On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:35:01 +0200, Robert Klemme
>>> <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 23.07.2012 22:53, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 21:11:29 +0200, Robert Klemme
>>>>> <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:

>>>        I think it the most important thing.  If one does not know why
>>> one would use a class, why even bother?
>>
>> IMHO the class documentation is reference material which should provide
>> the basic facts so I can decide myself whether the class is appropriate
>> for the use case at hand or not.  Learning to judge that is part of the
>> process of learning to program.  That should not be piggybacked on
>> reference documentation.
>
>       That is the reference documentation!  Maybe the class is better
> is certain circumstances than the usual implementation.  e.g. "If you
> want ..., then this class may be useful."

But there are so many situations that you cannot expect writers of reference 
documentation to only cover a reasonable subset (and what is reasonable lies in 
the eye of the beholder of course).  Class JavaDoc is reference material and 
should cover the formal aspects plus an informative example at times.  And 
that's what we find in stdlib JavaDoc
- sometimes better, sometimes worse.

>       Yes.  Where is the learning reference for what these classes do?

Tutorials, books, Usenet, websites....

> If one does not already know the class, JavaDoc is not too useful.

I disagree: there are so many classes that you typically know many and have a 
pretty good idea which one to use but need to look up the details from time to 
time (i.e. for classes you do not use on a regular basis or for usage which 
deviates from what you regularly do with the class).

>>>        One effect that I have noticed with things like this is that a
>>> newbie struggles.  Someone who already knows does not see a problem.
>>> He is already past it.  so it rarely gets addressed.
>>
>> But if it were such a big issue for a large number of people learning
>> Java I am pretty sure it would be addressed.  So I conclude the
>> situation cannot be as bad as you observe it.
>
>       It is and it isn't.  Why do you think that there is such a big
> market for intro texts for a language?  It is interesting to me though
> that, IME, the next step (mid-level) has little, and this is true in
> many languages; Java is not special in this regard.

I think Sun / Oracle is doing a pretty job at providing information: there is 
free reference documentation for the library's API - this is mandatory.  There 
are tutorials for various aspects - this is kind of them to provide for free.  
And then people can earn a living by giving courses and write books - and of 
course they are also free to give their knowledge away for nothing (Usenet, web 
sites...) but then since it does not cost a dime users have to live with some 
quirks.  Actually Sun / Oracle was not forced to give away java, javac etc. for 
nothing, were they?  But they did it (probably with some speculation about 
furthering proliferation of the language) and I think they did it OK.  I think 
you are expecting unreasonably too much.  Of course you can always ask for more 
for a lower price - but there's no guarantee that you get it or that many 
people agree it's a good idea.

Kind regards

        robert


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Re: Do C++ and Java professionals use UML?? "Robert Klemme" <robert.klemme@1:261/38.remove-10ae-this> - 2012-07-27 18:41 +0000
  Re: Do C++ and Java professionals use UML?? "Gene Wirchenko" <gene.wirchenko@1:261/38.remove-10ae-this> - 2012-07-27 18:41 +0000
    Re: Do C++ and Java professionals use UML?? "Robert Klemme" <robert.klemme@1:261/38.remove-z1h-this> - 2012-07-28 18:36 +0000
      Re: Do C++ and Java professionals use UML?? "Gene Wirchenko" <gene.wirchenko@1:261/38.remove-z1h-this> - 2012-07-28 18:36 +0000
    Re: Do C++ and Java professionals use UML?? "markspace" <markspace@1:261/38.remove-z1h-this> - 2012-07-28 18:36 +0000
  Re: Do C++ and Java professionals use UML?? "David Lamb" <david.lamb@1:261/38.remove-z1h-this> - 2012-07-28 18:36 +0000
    Re: Do C++ and Java professionals use UML?? "Robert Klemme" <robert.klemme@1:261/38.remove-z1h-this> - 2012-07-28 18:36 +0000
      Re: Do C++ and Java professionals use UML?? "Eric Sosman" <eric.sosman@1:261/38.remove-5ky-this> - 2012-07-28 20:40 +0000
      Re: Do C++ and Java professionals use UML?? "Gene Wirchenko" <gene.wirchenko@1:261/38.remove-rf4-this> - 2012-07-30 19:00 +0000

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